To ask if universal credit should take into account what your living expenses are?

[Cheeseandlobster]

I have a family member who had a baby dd this year. She lives with her mum and dad in a granny annexe and pays no bills, rent or food. She sends me screenshots every time she gets a payment saying she is amazed at how much she is being paid (around £750 every 4 weeks). She also sends me screenshots of what she is buying and it's often urban decay makeup, Michael Kors designer clothing, etc. She has openly said she has no intention of ever leaving home or working as she has never been so well off and had such nice things.

She is a great mum to her dd and her dd has everything she needs but this isn't what benefits are for and she is now making a lifestyle choice of staying on uc for as long as she can. I have explained that once her dd is older she will have to find a job and tried to encourage her to think about what she would like to do when that time comes but she is adamant she won't be working again.

This isn't her fault in a way as the system has allowed her to do this and her mum and dad are choosing not to charge housekeep. I also know people on the other end of the spectrum on uc who have large bills and are really struggling to make ends meet

So should uc take into account what your outgoings are too? I don't know how much it would cost to administer but the differences in living styles between those living at home and those living independently seem huge and it doesn't seem fair to me

Nice goady post OP.

UC is based on the fact that someone over 18 is an adult and responsible for supporting themselves and their parents other family members are not responsible for their upkeep.

I'm sure you would be happier is your imaginary sister was living in a damp bedsit worrying how she would buy nappies.

As for the poster on page 1 talking about people on benefits owning horses and spending 5 figure sums on plastic surgery, I think you need to look up how much money people actually receive on benefits before you make those claims.

How have single mothers whose partners left them "made their beds?!?!?!?!?!"

Or those of us who left abusive partners.

@JessStu if it's so over generous then quit your job and live on benefits. I always wonder why people don't do that if they think it's a great lifestyle.

Can't believe the reactions of some people at the idea of someone less fortunate than themselves getting help. Must be awful to be such a bitter person.

Personally I couldn't care less if someone works or not because I know that if you're not working you aren't having a great life. I just feel sympathy.

Also, the reason a lot of single mothers don't work initially isn't because they can't be bothered, it's because the cost of childcare is so high. That was certainly the reason why I didn't work initially when I got divorced. Plenty of married women don't work either until their children start school, you see it on here all the time where they say it wouldn't be worth it financially. Maybe there's an issue there that needs addressing.

But that's exactly what universal credit does. My 25 year old daughter moved home just before lockdown. She was then made redundant. Because she lives with us she gets 400 a month and gives us 100 of that. If she had still been in her house share, she would have got more towards her rent and council tax.
It's the bank of mum and dad creating the inequity in your scenario. UC is not the issue.

@JessStu

They could live in some kind of dormitory/ halls of residence where they can get support to get back to work / help with child care . They would be single sex so no risk of any unwanted /unplanned pregnancies

Well we need to do something to demonstrate single motherhood on benefits is no longer a viable career choice. If the carrot doesn't work then perhaps we need some stick.

Radical idea but how about using that stick on the men that abandon their responsibilities to their children and avoid paying a penny towards feeding and clothing them. Women don't impregnate themselves yet the focus of the contempt appears to be solely on the women left, literally, holding the baby.

There are a couple of things here

1. people on benefits are rarely in a position that they do not have to pay rent, gas, electric etc

2. She is doing a job, she is looking after a child, and you yourself said she is a good mum

3. UC assesses an amount and that's what you recieve. The amount of your bills doesn't and shouldn't come into it. Every year I check for the best deal I can for gas, electricity, insurance etx - should benefits be reduced because I have got a better deal?

@Gingerkittykat

Nice goady post OP.

UC is based on the fact that someone over 18 is an adult and responsible for supporting themselves and their parents other family members are not responsible for their upkeep.

I'm sure you would be happier is your imaginary sister was living in a damp bedsit worrying how she would buy nappies.

As for the poster on page 1 talking about people on benefits owning horses and spending 5 figure sums on plastic surgery, I think you need to look up how much money people actually receive on benefits before you make those claims.

She isn't my sister and she isn't imaginary. Jeez some people are nasty on here. I asked if people living independently should receive more than those who don't citing two RL people who are close to me. As I explained earlier they both receive very similar amounts yet one buys designer clothes and one can't afford any treats for herself and is struggling to pay the basics. I haven't said anything subjectively bad about my family member, or single mothers like some have or people on benefits. Like I also said previously - I have been on benefits myself so why would I slate people who are? And I have also said that I have been very supportive of my family member in lots of ways so how dare you suggest I want her to suffer - I said it isn't her fault if the system is allowing this but it doesn't seem fair when others like my friend are really struggling It was a genuine question so go somewhere else if you can't be constructive and civil.

@Waxonwaxoff0

Also, the reason a lot of single mothers don't work initially isn't because they can't be bothered, it's because the cost of childcare is so high. That was certainly the reason why I didn't work initially when I got divorced. Plenty of married women don't work either until their children start school, you see it on here all the time where they say it wouldn't be worth it financially. Maybe there's an issue there that needs addressing.

I thought in UK if your child were 3, you get 30hrs free child care a week? Is this not or no longer the case? So if still available, women don’t need to wait for school age to afford childcare.

women don’t need to wait for school age to afford childcare

Never a male issue is it?

Plenty of married women don't work either until their children start school,

With their husband / partner funding them and their children.

Why do you think the tax payer should be obliged to pay for you and your child? It's this sense of entitlement again, so prevalent on Mumsnet.

@BluebellsGreenbells

women don’t need to wait for school age to afford childcare

Never a male issue is it?

Sorry, I am usually careful and say parent but in this context I was responding to a post that specifically was about single mothers and married women. I agree completely it is a parent issue.

She is doing a job, she is looking after a child, and you yourself said she is a good mum

Is she a nursery nurse or childminder, providing a service and being paid for it? No she isn't, so she isn't doing a job. She is looking after her own child, a child she chose to have so that she could claim benefits and not work - this is not a job.

@JessStu

Plenty of married women don't work either until their children start school,

With their husband / partner funding them and their children.

Why do you think the tax payer should be obliged to pay for you and your child? It's this sense of entitlement again, so prevalent on Mumsnet.

Because that child as a grown up tax payer will be payIng your state pension in a few decades.

@JessStu

She is doing a job, she is looking after a child, and you yourself said she is a good mum

Is she a nursery nurse or childminder, providing a service and being paid for it? No she isn't, so she isn't doing a job. She is looking after her own child, a child she chose to have so that she could claim benefits and not work - this is not a job.

It is a job. Jobs are both paid and unpaid. With your dismissive tone you are erasing the hard work of millions who work for no pay.

@JessStu

She is doing a job, she is looking after a child, and you yourself said she is a good mum

Is she a nursery nurse or childminder, providing a service and being paid for it? No she isn't, so she isn't doing a job. She is looking after her own child, a child she chose to have so that she could claim benefits and not work - this is not a job.

She didnt plan the pregnancy to claim benefits - she didn't plan to get pregnant at all. She had career aspirations before. She is a great mum but it wasn't what she was expecting to be doing

@Waxonwaxoff0

Also, the reason a lot of single mothers don't work initially isn't because they can't be bothered, it's because the cost of childcare is so high. That was certainly the reason why I didn't work initially when I got divorced. Plenty of married women don't work either until their children start school, you see it on here all the time where they say it wouldn't be worth it financially. Maybe there's an issue there that needs addressing.

Uc will pay 85% of childcare costs.

people on benefits are rarely in a position that they do not have to pay rent, gas, electric etc
Its not as rare as some think. Many single mums were once married to well paid men and have done ok in the divorce.

I know a few who now live in a mortgage free home, and did very well on tax credits for almost 20 years, especially after they introduced the rule that maintenance didn't count in calculations.

Another friend received benefits for years that paid the interest in her mortgage. She then sold the house when that changed but by then, the value had almost tripled and she was able to get a nice house outright in a much cheaper area.

The reality is that there are a massive differences in lifestyles amongst single parents living off benefits. A mum of 2 children living in a high cost area, recieving no maintenance, both children healthy so not entitled to DLA is going to probably get half, or maybe even up to a quarter what a single mum with three children, from two exes, both with good jobs paying good maintenance living for free at mum and dad or in a house mortgage free with a child or two entitled to DLA.

That's not even taking into consideration potential inheritance!

Its therefore pointless to discuss whether living off benefit is difficult or not.

Thankfully, UC means that it is harder to live solely off benefits for decades. By thankfully I mean that it allows single parents to get onto the market force so that they don't end up with very little income and work prospects when their children have left home.

It sounds like op's friends baby is still very young anyway if born this year ?

Because that child as a grown up tax payer will be payIng your state pension in a few decades.

Not if they follow their mother's example and are net takers from the system.

PS I have a private pension. That child hasn't paid a penny into my private pension. The majority of people who are net contributors will have a private pension.

@dontdisturbmenow

people on benefits are rarely in a position that they do not have to pay rent, gas, electric etc Its not as rare as some think. Many single mums were once married to well paid men and have done ok in the divorce.

I know a few who now live in a mortgage free home, and did very well on tax credits for almost 20 years, especially after they introduced the rule that maintenance didn't count in calculations.

Another friend received benefits for years that paid the interest in her mortgage. She then sold the house when that changed but by then, the value had almost tripled and she was able to get a nice house outright in a much cheaper area.

The reality is that there are a massive differences in lifestyles amongst single parents living off benefits. A mum of 2 children living in a high cost area, recieving no maintenance, both children healthy so not entitled to DLA is going to probably get half, or maybe even up to a quarter what a single mum with three children, from two exes, both with good jobs paying good maintenance living for free at mum and dad or in a house mortgage free with a child or two entitled to DLA.

That's not even taking into consideration potential inheritance!

Its therefore pointless to discuss whether living off benefit is difficult or not.

Thankfully, UC means that it is harder to live solely off benefits for decades. By thankfully I mean that it allows single parents to get onto the market force so that they don't end up with very little income and work prospects when their children have left home.

Yes same for a friend of mine. Came out of her divorce with a mortgage free house, claimed benefits and a lot of maintenance as ex husband on over 100k a year. Unfortunately now all the kids have left home she is really struggling on UC herself with not great job prospects and can't afford to maintain the house.

Unfortunately now all the kids have left home she is really struggling on UC herself with not great job prospects and can't afford to maintain the house.

Exactly the point I made earlier, some people don't seem to thinking ahead to when the benefits and maintenance stop. She's actually fortunate that she has a house. What happens to those that are renting?

I would actually find it hard to find anyone who thinks single parents and their children should live in poverty because they are single!

There is very much a prevailing attitude in our society that single parents should be poor. There is thread after thread like this one and having been single for over 10 years myself, I can tell you that the gossip, back stabbing and unpleasantness in the playground is very real. I am not allowed holidays, nor can I buy a new car, nor can I be seen in the pub with a friend. I certainly am not allowed to live in a house that is bigger or on a 'better' street than any married couple. All of that amounts to abuse of the benefit system and/or child abuse.

Simple fact of the matter is that in my experience, single parents work incredibly hard, are innovative and resilient - I do three jobs, one of them is on a self employed basis and the other is seasonal but I work hard for my (not very much) money and make no apologies for it. I am also 'lucky' with an inheritance which means I haven't had a mortgage for years and have plenty of cash sloshing around in the bank. So yeah, I can afford a new car and a holiday and a house on a nice street. People cannot stand that we aren't shuffling along with our bowls begging for gruel. Jealousy is so terribly unbecoming.