To take my family and go live in Gibraltar

[wigglysmiggle]

Dh is currently working from home until at least next year.
Dc about to return to private school and this year has been incredibly stressful for us financially, I now don't want to commit to fees for the rest of time after the scare of this year but our local state is rubbish and I'm finding it all extra complicated due to coronavirus, I did contact some state schools to see if they had space but I didn't get a reply.

Dh thinks he's in a good position to negotiate permanent wfh with the odd trip to London which is easy enough from Gibraltar. We would sort that out before we go.

We were about to sign a new rent contract due to our current landlord selling where we live in the U.K. but that's fallen through. I hate the town where we live and feel stuck due to the school and even if we move to a nicer area there's no guarantee we would get a place in a good school.

We had already planned to move to Gibraltar last year but at the final interview for a job there my dh was told they weren't actually going to hire someone after all and so we stayed in U.K. and stopped looking.
Now I'm thinking of just moving out there while we're both wfh, the rental here has fallen through and I am fed up with everything's that's gone on.

Renting in Gibraltar would be cheaper than where we rent now, and both of us will attempt to get a job there once we have an address as I've heard it's easier to get a job with a local address, we both are in careers that are available there but regardless my job is stable and I wfh permanently anyway so we'd have an income. If it doesn't work out I believe we can always return to the U.K. no school fees means we would be much better off financially and more able to save.
Wibu to just go for it and get dc into a school there? We have no family to leave behind and I can't think why we wouldn't other than pure fear of the unknown,

Do I need sense talked into me? Literally thinking of cancelling school fees, getting out there and restarting life before dc too old to do it (they are in primary)

I didn't realise Spain will have so much of a say in what happens to Gibraltar. Would that mean U.K. citizens would be affected then and no longer allowed to reside there? Or simply that tensions are high?

Tensions are incredibly high. Literally the only thing that's made Spain reasonable about Gibraltar was the rest of the EU telling them they had no choice. Our interest in Gibraltar was protected by our membership in the EU. Spain have always considered Gibraltar to be their sovereign land and there have been very tense moments in spite of EU protection.

How we formally exit the EU will have massive implications on what Spain does next. They still have to abide by EU agreements. If Boris fucks that up fairly likely then Spain will have carte blanche on how to treat Gibraltar.

Have a little google on what the Spanish government have been saying and it'll give you a sense for why Brexit would be my biggest concern.

If you can shoulder the risk and return home with low impact then it might be worth a go, but definitely go prepared for Brexit to be a bad thing for Gibraltar (there's a reason they almost all voted to stay in the EU).

Thanks @JustCallMeGriffin I am aware of the tensions and Spain talking the talk but less aware that Spain could have a heavy say in it due to thinking it was a U.K. issue but I too believe the current government probably aren't too caring overall towards Gib seeing as they don't seem to care about the U.K.!

We could easily just come back and probably slip back into the life we have now as long as we keep our jobs and our school isn't full but I wouldn't want to go out there only to have to return very quickly as no doubt will be quite disruptive to the dc. I read that these 'deals' will be finalised between Eu and U.K. in October, although not sure if that still stands since coronavirus, perhaps I'm better off waiting until next year then to see what happens. Shame as really don't want to sign into another rent contract in my depressing area.

A lovely lady bastion of olde England

Not at all lovely, ugly and frequently described as “a council estate on a rock”.

Do it. We have to grab these opportunities. As with everything there will be difficulties and challenges but what a wonderful adventure too!

On the tax issue, if you have anything other than a low level admin role, your employer will probably have to register a new branch of itself over there to comply with company tax laws. This is a pretty big hassle for the sake of 1 employee both in terms of cost and administrative issues like filing local accounts and so on, so please be aware that your employer might not permit you to work from abroad. As you can imagine its happening a lot at the moment with people wanting to work from all over the world and companies are having to say no a lot as the costs of registering branches for each country their employees want to work from would be huge!

Basically Spain has been told by the EU to behave whilst we were in the EU. Now we're out Spain has got 26 mates to help get Gibraltar back for good.

Went for the day whilst in Spain once, the nature reserve was lovely but the rest of it...reminded me of an inner London council estate. High rise flats everywhere (which I was told are a fortune to rent) and the parking situation was horrendous.

why gibraltar? Incredibly boring limited place.

Surely it will become Spanish soon enough. There's no justification in it. DOn't you have to give a term's notice on school fees anyway?

Thanks @pinkcarpet ive been looking into it tonight. Some countries have made allowances for this during Covid
As our earnings would be deemed to be generated in the U.K. for a U.K. company despite us being based in Gib, there is an agreement between the U.K. and Gibraltar on how this is taxed so I will check this out with my accountant tomorrow as I can't work out who has to submit the information me or my company.

@mellicauli I handed in notice on school fees due to coronavirus and that stands until end of August. We are allowed to go back or not go back until that date because we agreed this at the beginning of coronavirus when my dh company told everyone they were worried about the effects of the virus in their business.
Luckily it's not been anywhere as bad as they thought but shook us to the core and we've now had a term of thinking about school fees and what the hell we are doing in life in general.

I wouldn't. The Spain & Brexit situation, the expensive cost of housing and things in general are large, simple negatives for me. On a more personal level, the fact that I found it's not very friendly, the lack of good shops and the general claustrophobia and concrete jungle look of the place would put me off, too.

Also the last time I was in Gib it rained and was disappointingly chilly . It was just like being in England- and not even in an especially nice town, come to that.

As our earnings would be deemed to be generated in the U.K. for a U.K. company despite us being based in Gib, there is an agreement between the U.K. and Gibraltar on how this is taxed so I will check this out with my accountant tomorrow as I can't work out who has to submit the information me or my company

This only applies for as long as Gib remains a British overseas territory. Which, as other posters have already pointed out, is incredibly unlikely to last once we finish our current transition period. The only reason that Spain backed off was because they were told to by the EU. What incentive do you think the EU will have to intervene again to protect the UK's sovereignty, now that that Brexit has occurred?

Personally I would go for it.

There is no point wasting another year in a place you don’t want to be.

There will always be reasons why things might change re Gibraltar
Next year something else might crop up and put you off going

I liked Gibraltar in what I saw on my one day there.
If anything I preferred it to Marbella. I just felt more comfortable there. My family had other ideas and didn’t see the attraction.

It sounds like it will be a means to an end whilst living in a nice climate.

I continue to be surprised by the number of people on here planning to move many miles away from their employers because their employer ‘agreed’ they can work from home. What happens when those employees who’ve moved to a small village near Edinburgh or Gibraltar when the situation changes and their employer changes their minds or decides that what’s best for the business is a mix of WFH one or or two days of the week and the rest in the office?

I’m assuming employees contracts haven’t been changed stating they are allowed to WFH forever so I think it’s a really risky decision to move many miles from work based on the current situation.

I blame irresponsible journalists in publications like The Guardian for writing weekly articles claiming ‘everyone’ is leaving cities to work from home in the countryside forever. It could put some peoples job prospects and careers in jeopardy.

Barbados is welcoming work from home Brits for 1 year if you decide or find Gib will be too much of a problem.

I would think if someone has to go into the office a couple of days per week then they either get a small flat or Airbnb for the 2 days. They still have most of their time in the setting they want to live in.

That only works if they are earning a decent amount of money to be able to afford to do it though.

@RhianFuckingMorris thanks yes I saw that. Wondering what I'd do with the dc education if I moved there though. Probably pack my bags and go already otherwise

Gib is a bit of a hole, mostly small flats and expensive. Why not move to Spain instead where your money for everything from property to groceries will go so much further?
If you go before the end of the year you can get your residency sorted out for post Brexit.

@MaxNormal because of brexit complicating everything.

Apparently the Spanish aren't very speedy about getting residency sorted before the end of the year so I am worried to leave ourselves vulnerable to being forced back. Also Gibraltar offers most chance of employment for us if we choose to stay and I don't fancy the border crossing after brexit!

You'll possibly have more complications as a resident of Gib imo. If you move to Spain now and get residency you're covered under the withdrawal agreement.

The major disadvantage and issue with Gibraltar is the somewhat still disputed historical complex sovereignty especially with Brexit and the Spanish weaponisation of broader controls.

As Brits we naturally see this as an non issue as essentially there may be only 30k overnight local residents but there are many more tourists and workers and probably mostly from Spain to provide some/much of the labour forces.

I understand from locals that the Spanish side are more than happy to make border land crossing a big logistical issue as they have done previously. Keeping their side closed or open but go slow checking all paperwork meticulously and every nook and cranny of cars passing etc (as if they are terrorist or escaped convicts!)

I still think this is a bit of olde England mixed with modern high density purpose built architecture. There are some desirable marina developments as you would expect with asking prices to match but this is no Monaco! It is a relaxed slow paced British overseas territory with high per capital GDP so some high net worth types and all locals benefiting from its strategic position. The economy specialising in business sectors appropriate for its survival and tax status mainly banking and financial services, the Internet (mostly gambling), tourism, shipping (bunkering) and tobacco. Brexshit is the big question mark along with future long term status. This is no Falklands and Spain is no Argentina!

Yes that's why I wouldn't want to risk living in Spain Because the Spanish are making it difficult and always have done with regards to crossing the border.