Feminism and transphobia

[CatsArePeopleToo]

Are we supposed to include males in everything now? Facebook/Twitter feels like an alternate reality.

@Proudboomer

I don’t use twitter as quite frankly I think it is a pit of human excrement and the world would be a better place if it ceased to exist.

This soooo true.

This will go round and round in circles until the TRA's stop equating not getting their own way with hatred. They are like flat earthers you can't reason with them.

This will go round and round in circles until the TRA's stop equating not getting their own way with hatred

Yup, disagreeing with them apparently means you want all trans people to die, or are saying they don't exist at all

And god forbid you say you believe women are a real thing, distinct from men. Or speak of female biology.

It's crazy.

What a transphobic OP - they're not men - they're prostate-havers and ejaculators (well, the latter only sometimes).

But seriously ... on one FB group I belong to, purportedly feminist, I've seen women bullied off for daring to ask fairly innocent questions, or demurring on "transwomen are women #NoDebate" or questioning the use of "cis" by other feminists.

It's not a pretty site, and the cognitive dissonance is astounding. All done in the name of inclusivity and intersectionality. I keep wondering about all the women who don't exist, because they were aborted for being female.

The term 'cis' really boils my piss. I am not a 'cis' woman. I am a woman. A man, if he has surgery to chop his bits off, may become a 'trans' woman, but will never, ever be a 'woman' and should never be considered as such under any circumstances. Jesus, have we as women not had enough crap to deal with over the centuries without our most basic identity being threatened as well now?

Preach it, sister @Trumpspeach

It's why I put the term "cis" in scare quote marks! In fact, I think the use of the term "cis" to describe women on Mumsnet is pretty much a reason for reporting & deleting a post. Certainly, MN recognise the term "TRF as an insult, and don't allow it to be used.

That should read "t * rf"

The term 'cis' really boils my piss. I am not a 'cis' woman. I am a woman.
Absolutely this. My own DS recently referred to my opinions being those of a cis woman. I did suggest that if he did so again he'd be wearing his own testicles as earrings. He was then subjected to a lecture about women's hard-fought-for rights and I genuinely think he was shocked - the 'woke' generation really have no idea at times.

It's because we too often use the word "gender" when we mean "sex" and we've cut the phrases "gender roles" or gender stereotypes" down to just "gender."

We need to make very clear the difference between sex (biology) and gender (culture). The two often overlap or blur, but they are different.

@NiceLegsShameAboutTheFace

We have female only things for a reason, which is now apparently irrelevant because a group of men want access to these spaces.

And to that group of men .... FUCK. RIGHT. OFF!!!!!

This message - got it in one. Well said!

To me, some of this stuff does come across as a bit transphobic (don’t crucify me) but I’m keen to hear the arguments as I am not sure I really understand and really struggle to have a strong opinion on the matter. Or if anyone wants to recommend me some sources I’d be keen to educate myself.

@AmazingGrapes

To me, some of this stuff does come across as a bit transphobic (don’t crucify me) but I’m keen to hear the arguments as I am not sure I really understand and really struggle to have a strong opinion on the matter. Or if anyone wants to recommend me some sources I’d be keen to educate myself.

Maybe you could start by explaining what you find a bit transphobic?

Also the general (vitriolic) tone of the thread I guess. I’d love to know what everyone is angry about precisely/ the history/ issues etc so I can see where my own views land, if someone has the time and energy to explain. TIA!

This thread is from August 2020.

I have no idea what people on twitter think, because as soon as anybody asks any questions they reply "Educate yourself!"
OK... but they are trying to?
How else can we learn but to ask questions as a starting point?

But @AmazingGrapes you still haven't explained what is "transphobic" in that comment.

Humans can't change sex. It's never happened in the history of humanity. You can cut off or sew on body parts and inject as many cross-sex hormones as you want but none of those things actually change your sex anymore than surgically attaching wings on your back would turn you into a bird.

So doctors telling patients they can have "gender affirmation" or "sex reassignment surgery" are lying. What they are offering is castration and mastectomies and good old plastic facial surgery.

Is it ethical to chop off healthy body parts? This is an interesting perspective: https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2000/12/a-new-way-to-be-mad/304671/

And many of these surgeries are being carried out by cowboy doctors, leaving their patients scarred and sometimes disabled. Just check out some of the links I posted on this thread:
http://www.mumsnet.com/Talk/lgbt_parents/4233955-Gender-affirming-surgery-linked-to-better-mental-health

The Break it down for me thread is probably a good start: www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

Some one else was asking pretty much the same question.

@AmazingGrapes

This is an old thread but I'll bite.

I’d love to know what everyone is angry about precisely/ the history/ issues etc so I can see where my own views land, if someone has the time and energy to explain. TIA!

I am presuming you are a biological woman. You know the history of women, the oppression and difficulties we historically have and still face based purely on our biology. It is our biology that has been used to oppress us, with the patriarchal society suggesting that being female makes you of a different personality and mind. Or ladybrain as it's otherwise known. We have worked hard to move away from harmful, regressive stereotypes of 'what it means to be a woman' for the sake of equality - women and men are biologically different and that needs to be recognised for our safety, but we are not 'pink loving, fluffy headed, baby making machines'. It was working as well, until some decided that gender is as real and valid as biological sex.

Now all that hard work to undo 'being a woman is x,y and z stereotypes' is not just being reinforced, it's now considered a more valid societal and even medical interpretation of being female. Could you imagine if any other group in society could be something their not based on a feeling in their head? As a white person, could I be black if I got a tan and said how much I loved fried chicken? How fucking offensive would that be? But the equivalent, men becoming women because they always felt more comfortable in heels, with pretty hair and 'hanging out with ladies' isn't offensive at all. Or 'being in girl mode' as its now known .

I read a heartbreaking story about a 3 year old girl yesterday who now 'lives as a boy'. Why? Because she always liked boys clothes, playing football and likes fire engines. That's what we're celebrating as a progressive, liberal society. That little girl had barely started growing before being brainwashed by this gender nonsense, and looking at years of being medicated because her parents can't accept little girls like the same things as little boys.

The thing that gets me is that even though most people in the ‘real world’ know what biological sex is, and that sex based protections are important, because of the very vocal minority on Twitter, policies, language and even laws are being changed in ways we probably won’t see or understand the ramifications of for some time. And I don’t know what happens then.

As far as I'm concerned, adults can make a choice to change themselves and live as they please. Saying a child is trans because they don't conform to your stereotypical ideas of being male/female is nothing more than a form of conversation therapy. The medical community is is being highly unethical treating a personal belief about gender stereotypes as a genuine medical issue in young children.

*conversion therapy

Typing too quickly!