To offer some grammar tips to anyone who might want them?

[UnaCorda]

I sincerely hope this doesn't come across as either rude or patronising - it genuinely isn't meant to. It's also not intended as a pedants' thread.

I just thought it might be useful to list a few common mistakes, with an explanation, so that anyone who isn't very confident with their written English might be able to correct errors which, for example, could perhaps count against them in a job application or when used in a professional context.

I'll start with three:

1. "Your" shows that what you're referring to (probably a person or object) belongs to whoever "you" is in the sentence; for example, "Your brother showed me your book". If you mean "you are" you need to write "you're".

2. "Non" is not a word on its own - it is negating something, such as in "non-stick" or "non-committal". ("None-stick" would be incorrect, as would "non of them".) "None" means there aren't any. "How many cakes are left?" "Sorry - none." Or, "How many of the children finished the test?" "None of them."

3. "Alot" is not a word and the same goes for "abit", "infront", "incase" and "inbetween". Instead use "a lot", etc., just like "a little".

Hope I haven't made any mistakes myself...

@UnaCorda I'm interested by your thoughts on "Mary and I's exhibition". Clearly that's wrong, but I do think English is particularly clunky when something belongs to two people.
Would you say "Mary and my exhibition" or "Mary's and my exhibition"?
I find this particularly tricky.
Should it be "Welcome to Tom and Jane's wedding"? Or "Welcome to Tom's and Jane's wedding"?
"We're going to Tom and Jane's for dinner"?
Or "we're going to Tom's and Jane's for dinner"?

@UnaCorda I've found this link which answers my questions:

www.quickanddirtytips.com/education/grammar/compound-possession

Yes the ¿ ? and ¡ ! are a fabulous invention.

Excessive use of !!! often at the end of every sentence is a bit daft. One well chosen ! has more impact than dozens of the pesky things peppering a thread.

@barefootcook

Sarah and I went to the museum.

Yes, that's correct.

How do I use "Sarah and me" in a sentence?

To figure out I vs me, all you need to do is leave Sarah out. You wouldn't say Come to the party with I, so it would be Come to the party with Sarah and me.

I was sat
She was sat
We were sat

I was stood
They were stood
He was stood

Poor old sitting and standing!

I quite like the Spanish punctuation of putting an upside-down question mark or exclamation mark at the beginning of a sentence as well as a regular one at the end.

They're a great idea, signalling at the start of a sentence how to read it. More than a few times when reading books to DD I had to go back and re-read a sentence with the correct tone.

I have lived in many parts of the UK, the variation in local-speak is amazing. Grammar pedantry would remove that richness of variation.

Spell checkers and autocorrect have introduced problems with the electronically written form. I know the difference between there, they're and their, my autocorrect does not always play nicely.

If I write a letter by hand I check my spelling and grammar personally. Having a machine do it takes less time, but can introduce unintended errors. I was typing about something the other day and it replaced horde with hoard. I posted before I noticed, but you could still divine my meaning from the context - three people felt it necessary to point out "my" error (which just made me sigh...).

I have lived in many parts of the UK, the variation in local-speak is amazing. Grammar pedantry would remove that richness of variation.

Some 'mistakes' may be considered as dialect forms now, including the 'Alan Sugar" thing upthread.
However, such things are probably more acceptable in speech than writing.

@BeyondMyWits - I have lived in many parts of the UK, the variation in local-speak is amazing. Grammar pedantry would remove that richness of variation.

Not necessarily. There is is big difference between colloquial speech and formal writing. For example, I would quite happily say "Me and John are going to the party". I would even write it in an informal text message/email to certain people. However, I would never write it in a more formal communication as I know it is incorrect grammar. The same with myself - I'm Irish and we use myself in a different way to other English speakers. Saying "You can drop that into myself later" or my personal favourite "Is it yourself that's in it" are perfectly acceptable here and are seen as more intimate and personal than using "me". However, I wouldn't write them as they are casual colloquialisms.

We're going to Tom and Jane's for dinner"?
Or "we're going to Tom's and Jane's for dinner"?

I would use the first of the options for both written and verbal contexts. The meaning is clear which is the main thing.

Well, not all Irish people use 'myself' like that.

I don't. I'm aware that it's superfluous. ''Drop it in to me''.

I do hear it yes, eg ''myself and Anne will come over to you later''. But it's not correct hibernian english. It's still a mistake.

Each nation will hear other nations' mistakes more loudly though. So it doesn't jar as awkwardly as some of the British mistakes, but still.

I was taught to write - I had a party with Ann, Barbara, Carol and Diana. (you don't need a comma between Carol and Diana).

So was I. I wasn't actually sure what the Oxford comma was (or why it was called that) but now I know, and I don't use it. Or at least, I think I don't.

@BeyondMyWits - I have lived in many parts of the UK, the variation in local-speak is amazing. Grammar pedantry would remove that richness of variation.

Not necessarily. There is is big difference between colloquial speech and formal writing

I agree with Beyond, for example in the Midlands it has been the case that Mum is said and written as Mom - I remember my own mother and grandmother (born in the 1920s and late 1890s) using Mom all the time. People assume it's an Americanism and correct it as incorrect English when it's really not, the head teacher at my DCs old school went so far as to ask parents for their help in stopping children at a 'helping your child with English session' - that went well

This is a great thread. Thanks op.

@WinnieLo - But it's not correct hibernian english. It's still a mistake.

It's a colloquialism. Hence I would use it in casual, rather than formal, communication.

[quote TaxTheRatFarms]**@SarahAndQuack* and @UnaCorda*

Japanese does, at times!

If you were saying you will “do” something, then you’d have the following options:

Normal - suru (do)

Casual - yaru (do)

Formal - sasete itadakimasu (please allow me to do)

Honorific - nasaimasu

Humble - itashimasu

“Suru “ and “yaru” are different verbs but with the same meaning. “Sasete” is a conjunction of “suru” so it’s a more polite form of the same verb rather than being a completely different verb.

There’s also honorific forms which you use when speaking about someone in a superior position, and humble forms which you should use about yourself when talking to someone in a higher position. The honorific form of “do” is “nasaimasu” and the humble form is “itashimasu”.

They all have the same meaning, but the verb would change depending on how formal you were being and whether you were referring to yourself or someone “above” you.

Was that the kind of thing you were thinking of?[/quote]
That is fascinating! Yes, that's exactly the sort of thing I was thinking of. Thank you!

@streamlinedcaverns - for example in the Midlands it has been the case that Mum is said and written as Mom - I remember my own mother and grandmother (born in the 1920s and late 1890s) using Mom all the time. People assume it's an Americanism and correct it as incorrect English when it's really not, the head teacher at my DCs old school went so far as to ask parents for their help in stopping children at a 'helping your child with English session' - that went well

That's just sheer ignorance. Mom is a proper noun and one of many used to refer to one's mother. There is no one correct word. Not recognising this variety is ignorant. Trying to change people's usage is arrogant.

Using me instead of I, or I was sat instead of I was sitting, is colloquial language but it is grammatically incorrect. It is inappropriate to use this type of language in formal communication.

Btw, @procne, I am so enjoying your MN name. Excellent maternal role model right there.

I hear you @OchonAgusOchonO
I make more effort to be correct with written communication.

It's just that it's not ''all Irish people'' who use myself like this. I'm not even tempted to use it in speech.

@WinnieLo - It's just that it's not ''all Irish people'' who use myself like this. I'm not even tempted to use it in speech.

I know that. No more than any other country, Ireland has plenty of variety in its use of language. I think the use of language around Dublin, in particular, is quite different to the rest of the country. A bit of a throwback to the days of the Pale.

Spell checkers and autocorrect have introduced problems with the electronically written form.

@BeyondMyWits - I commend to you this poem, from an 'unknown sauce.'

Eye halve a spelling chequer
It came with my pea sea
It plainly marques four my revue
Miss steaks eye can knot sea.
Eye strike a key and type a word
And weight four it two say
Weather eye am wrong oar write
It shows me strait a weigh.
As soon as a mist ache is maid
It nose bee fore two long
And eye can put the error rite
Its rare lea ever wrong.
Eye have run this poem threw it
I am shore your pleased two no
Its letter perfect awl the weigh
My chequer tolled me sew.

The comma before the 'and' somehow suggests to me that Diana is either different in some way to the other people listed or is an afterthought. Amazing how punctuation does that!

Yes, when it's used well punctuation really greases the wheels of written communication, a bit like facial expressions and gesture do with speech.

rose I love this poem!

The best spellchecker manglings I've seen were from a French colleague writing emails in English who had his French spellchecker on. I think that can be categorised as a User Error TBF.

I agree with the Oxford comma feeling clunky before the final item in a list.

it's as if in my example you were really excited about your party with Ann, Barbara and Carol, but Diana was a bit of an afterthought. The Americans love it though.