PC Harper killers sentenced

[ChazsBrilliantAttitude]

16 year and 13 year sentences.

I doubt they would have got much more if the murder charge had been successful.

I am glad to see the judge wasn’t convinced by their arguments.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-46544144

@ChazsBrilliantAttitude thanks for posting the link to the Judge’s decision/reasoning behind the sentencing, I’m reading it now.

@Shizzlestix

They should have been found guilty of murder. It was argued that they never set out to kill him so it wasn’t premeditated. The second they knew he was being dragged behind them but decided not to stop, that’s when it became murder. There’s no way they thought that dragging someone behind a car at 60mph wouldn’t die.

Totally agree.

..... I completely agree Murder doesn't have to be planned from the beginning, but it certainly turned into murder and indeed torture

However, the fault for the verdict lies with the jury, not the judge

Given that verdict, he gave the most severe sentence he thought would actually stick

I think there are two separate issues:-

1. the murder charge was rejected by a jury so for whatever reason the threshold wasn’t met
2. the judge has given as long as he can for Manslaughter given their ages and learning difficulties (in the case of the passengers).

Murder carries a mandatory life sentence (in practice that's 25 years)

@thecognoscenti

However, the average time served in prison is 16.5 years
fullfact.org/crime/how-long-do-murderers-serve-prison/

the justice system in this country is a joke, they'll be out and have their whole lives ahead of them!

to inflict that knowingly on another human being whilst commiting criminal acts is horrific - i feel angry and frustrated every time i hear about this case on the news, it's disgusting.

the offenders know the system is a joke too, the way they acted, as if no one can touch them.

they'll be out ruining more lives before they hit mid-30s.

how is that "justice"?

@TheIckabog

The credit should go to @FarTooSkinny

@CigarettesAndNoAlcohol

the justice system in this country is a joke

There are a number of issues with the justice system in this country but from this case I don't think you can say it was a joke. The prosecution failed to show convincingly that it was murder in the eyes of the jury.
The judge gave them sentences as harsh as he could

You have to prove the case to be murder. There was doubt due to the premeditation issue. It’s plainly there to read about what, in our system, is murder and what isn’t. If murder was any killing, then many drivers would be in prison for a long time if they were involved in an accident where someone died. They didn’t leave home plotting to kill someone. The court proceeded on the fact that these young men didn’t either.

Actually the two who were given 13 years have to serve 2/3rds in prison and the rest on license. So they will be out in 8 years or so.

Not necessarily. That will depend on whether they satisfy the relevant parole conditions.

They didn't go out intending to murder someone. They didn't intend to start dragging him along - that was an accident. But they did intentionally keep driving instead of pulling over. And that is murder.

Unfortunately though, UK murder sentences are soft. I truly hope his widow gets the charge turned to murder but realistically I'm not sure that will ever happen. Even if she does, they may not get any time added on to their existing sentence giving the length they've already got. I don't think the age of the killers helped either. British justice systems cower away from giving young people long sentences. Like the boys who killed Jamie Bulger. They didn't get very long given the nature of the crime, and since release they have been in and out of prison more times than I am in and out of my downstairs toilet.

Why can't we have US style sentences - like 99 years.

but what i don't understand about the lack of being able to prosecute as murder is.. the outcome is the same.

it doesn't matter to me (personally) if those thugs knew 10 hours, 10 minutes or 10 seconds before dragging him along that he was there.. they knew!

and that, to me, suggests a level of intention to murder (at that speed how could anyone survive with anything less than severe or deadly injuries).

and the impact is the same

that poor woman is still missing a husband

the man still endured suffering at their hands.

therefore, the intention is there (to me). the impact is the same (to me).

thus, it's a joke.

i say this as a citizen and not as a member of the legal establishment - i don't think it represents me or my views accurately, it's almost irrelevant to argue what the legal definition of murder is, if that definition is not fit for purpose anyway.

'all three from the delightful traveller community'

Yes they are from the traveller community but what has that got to do with it? Many quarters of the traveller community have condemned this act and are horrified by it too. Not all travellers are criminals

@Littlemeadow123

Unfortunately though, UK murder sentences are soft.

Untrue. Under English law the mandatory sentence for murder is life. In this case the prosecution failed to convince the jury that it was murder

Do US sentences work? Is the murder rate lower there? The answer is clearly no.

I find it hard to describe the sentences as “good” or “decent” as this poor man died so horribly. I don’t blame his widow or the rest of the family for being beside themselves about the lack of a murder conviction.

It’s also that much more galling that PC Harper was already 4 hours late finishing his shift due to the cuts to the police meaning his force was understaffed. Mind you, if it hadn’t had been him it would have been another officer dying horribly and another family destroyed.

Any death of an emergency worker killed on duty should not have a jury. Let a couple of hard nosed judges sentence them to life.

Heartbreaking. It should have been a murder charge. They knew he was hooked on the back of that car
this is a total travesty. So desperately sorry for his family
they will be out in 10. 10 years for murder of a police officer.

They've taken a person's life, taken a husband and the potential children from that marriage. Robbed parents of their son.

Even if they cruelly show no remorse for all that, with their stupid, gurning, grinning faces, don't they realise they've ruined their own lives?

@AlwaysCheddar
I disagree “any death” covers everything from an accidental killing eg car skidding on ice into a police car right through to Dale Cregan.
It is the responsibility of the prosecution to meet the threshold for murder, if they failed to do so then the jury had no option but to acquit.

Do US sentences work? Is the murder rate lower there? The answer is clearly no.

That is no comfort the relatives of the dead PC here.

Sometimes the justice system needs to reflect the fact that a life has been lost and it is NOT recoverable.

You might weep for all the future victims (are you suggesting we move to a more Danish model of rehabilitation?) but PC Harper's wife may not get comfort from that.

And who are we to tell her otherwise?

They killed an on-duty police officer knowingly.

I cannot move beyond that point, and all the theories spouted here about how the justice system works, or should work, or works around the world.. is simply a distraction.

If someone dragged my loved on to their death I'd not be as composed as his poor widow is, I have no idea how she's been so strong.

His poor wife looks absolutely broken & haunted. I dont know what she's going through but I can somewhat imagine and it is horrific. The article said they were together 13 years. I hope she has a good family around her

@Catspaw123

It should have been a murder charge.

They were charged with murder. And found not guilty of murder

Theres no way those bastards didn't know PC Harper was being dragged behind the car. They should be locked up for the rest of their disgusting lives for what they put that poor man through