Dysfunctional sister and niece

[Changes291]

Please help me process this. I’m going through a really rough time and can’t seem to shake the anger I feel towards my sister and niece.

Well before lockdown my sister invited the whole family down. Just to note my sisters eldest daughter has always been a bit difficult and spoilt. She’s 20 years old so not exactly a child anymore. Well she started her usual antics of later into the evening having a go at everyone and being very bratty. We all think she’s very disrespectful and entitled.

My sister knew me and husband were having issues in our marriage but she let her daughter spoil the whole evening and not once call her out on her behaviour or try to intervene considering we were guests in her house. Even after the event there was zero apology. It’s always been like this as she’s the eldest sister so when we were all growing up she would do nasty things and lash out all the time and never apologise and make us think we’re the problem not her. (Even when I was 10 years old and she was 21 she split my lip and made into my fault that I was being naughty so she hit me. I clearly remember my mum telling me to tell school I fell off my bike)

My other sister is more confident and outspoken so deals with any crap there and then but I’m more quiet and reserved so don’t like to cause further scenes. I really wish I had said something to her then and there instead of sitting there taking the abuse and now stewing about it.

Any advice? We’re waiting for couples counselling and I know husband will bring up how dysfunctional that sister and side of the family is and any other issues will be swept under the mat.

I’m angry with my sister as every single family occasion is disrupted by her daughter.
My mother starts every occasion by ringing us a week before pleading with us to ignore anything and just try to diffuse any situations. I don’t know why she doesn’t go to the source of the problem and deal with it.

Please be kind and not usual nastiness of mumsnet aibu. I feel down already.

Why are you still wanting to visit them? Do they have good qualities or are they always like this and you just go for whatever reason?

First of all, your sister has nothing to do with your marriage unless you are putting her above your husband. Secondly, as an adult, it is your responsibility to cut toxic people out of your life, sister or not. Why haven't you done so? Again, as an adult, why haven't you told your mother that no, you will no longer tolerate the shit behaviour of your niece?

Your marriage being difficult is not relevant with this. You sound like you have a lot of unresolved issues with her, referring back to incidents when you were ten. Is there anyway you're projecting all those feelings from back then onto her and her daughter now? Especially if her daughter is now the age your sister was when she hit you.

I think you need to sit down and think about what outcome you want, a simple text to say 'I found the behaviour on X weekend unacceptable and it's really bothering me' might be a way of opening the door to a conversation about their behaviour, if you're not confident doing in face to face.

No I don’t wish or want to visit her. I think it’s called ruminating where I keep replaying past things.

@Aquamarine1029 it’s very easy to say this but for the first 30 years if my life I didn’t realise I’m in a dysfunctional family with typical roles of golden child and scapegoat. It’s taken years of therapy and reading stately hones thread to realise this. Yes if I grew up in a half decent family then it would be easy for me to stand up to my mother and sister and not be awake writing to an Internet forum about my feelings. I wish I could just stand up to them and cut ties off but it’s really hard for me.

Thanks mollify you could be right but that doesn’t explain why other people also have issues with her. She didn’t hit my other sister as there’s a year between them so she was never able to bully her but my sister also has sane issues with her and doesn’t really bother with her apart from a superficial relationship. I’m really close to my second sister and we constantly talk about how spoilt the eldest is and how she gets away with stuff. I just needed an outside perspective.

I know she’s not contributing to my marriage but seriously if I knew someone was in a bad patch I wouldn’t make things more difficult for them.

Sorry I wasn’t clear this happened a while ago and I did text her the day after and her response was dismissive and she tried to blame it on us and said I should realise by now what DN is like and I should essentially put up with it. That’s the motto of my family just put up with it. That’s another cause if fights with my husband as he doesn’t understand why things are like this.

They both sound horrible. I would just limit the amount of contact you have with them. Next time your mum asks you to go, just say, not this time. Just choose the number of times per year you can tolerate her and stick to that. Once? twice? once every other year? I hate my sister, but as a compromise to my family I have agreed to be at the same gathering as her once a year, max

I wish I could just stand up to them and cut ties off but it’s really hard for me.

Some very necessary things are hard, but they still need to be done. What is your solution then? Do you want to keep going around in circles only to repeatedly end up where you are now? You already know they won't change, therefore you will have to.

Have a look at the stately homes thread on the relationships board to find your MN people

Thanks everyone I know what has to be done but I keep thinking she’s my sister and my mother etc. Etc. I do have to change myself.

@Reachfortheasteroid thank you. I’ve been lurking on the threads of stately homes for years but never posted on there.

This is really really hard for you OP. It's all very well people telling you what you 'should' be doing but you know that already and if you have no sense of power it must be very overwhelming. They've done a great job and got you exactly where they want you. I suppose you just have to learn to stop being surprised when they don't behave in the same way as kind humans like you yourself would do. That isn't going to change, ever, as they will never believe that they are in the wrong. Can you go NC or LC with them whilst you work on your relationship with your husband?

@SonEtLumiere - I can try that walking up and leaving thanks. I doubt I will see them till Xmas now so will try to remember.

Husband is also shy and reserved so takes a lot for him to deal with things at that time. He’s more like me in that he will bring up things to do with them when they’re not physically there.

Mum is a weird person to deal with. When I’ve tried in the past she will start crying and yelling “don’t come to my funeral, u only cause me grief”. In her world I should just put up with things. I’m sorry to go off on one but I was sexually abused by elder male relative from age 8-11 and to this day my mum pretends it didn’t happen. I only spoke about it when my niece was born so he wouldn’t do what he did to me to her. I know I sound childish but I just need my mum sometimes but she’s never been a mum really. Sorry I know I’m going off topic, I just process things by writing down. I just remember the day my mum found out she rang me up screaming and shouting asking why I’m making up lies. She didn’t believe me UNTIL he actually admitted it infront of the family and asked for forgiveness from THEM (not me). She still talks to him and visits his house. She tells he you shouldn’t break families apart.

I have been in a similar situation where my mum is hard work and it was difficult being around her. I kept giving the benefit of the doubt and biting my tongue, it did no good and I just felt worse after each visit.

I have decided not to visit or call. There were no discussions or fireworks. Mum knows how I work over things, everyone is entitled to their opinion or way of being. Just treat me how you'd wish to be treated.

I am much happier not being in contact.

With regard to the abuse in your update, please speak to a counsellor, you were a child and your mum seems to have been shocking over it.

Mum is a weird person to deal with. When I’ve tried in the past she will start crying and yelling “don’t come to my funeral, u only cause me grief”.

Your mother is a narcissistic gaslighter. I highly recommend you go to YouTube and look at the Surviving Narcissism channel. I think it will really help you.

shes wrong, plain and simple. (Actually, she’s abusive by proxy not just wrong). Unfortunately it sounds like you’re hitting your head against a brick wall hoping it will be cushioned, knowing it won’t be and regretting the graze on your forehead that you knew would result. The wall won’t change and neither will your family. It works for them. It doesn’t work for you so any changes will have to come from you

Ah op, you poor thing. There’s a lot of stuff there to work through. Your mum badly let you down. It’s one thing to have that happen to you but quite another to have it denied by the person who should be protecting you. I know that it’s your sister and niece that you’re posting about, but your mum is the main problem. You’ve been conditioned to seek her approval - you need to break that cycle so you can sort out the stuff with your husband. The fear of your mums reaction is leading to you being afraid to break rank. Is your marriage retrievable?

I would not attend events she and/or her daughter are at. If your mum pleads every time for you to diffuse the situation then she is also in the wrong and by not attending it might mean people address the attitude of your niece or other people also don't attend and then there's no audience. I would be so anxious knowing I was going to see someone who ruins every event - you shouldn't have to put up with your nieces shit!

If you keep behaving as you do they will keep behaving as they do. The ONLY person you have control of is yourself. What can you do to make the outcome better for you?

I’m so sorry about what you’ve been through and are continuing to go through. It sounds like your mother is somebody that excuses and enables abuse and that your sister is following in her footsteps. Keep them at a distance for a while (just make random excuses not to see them). Then concentrate on yourself and the relationships that are important to you like your marriage. Once you’ve built up your own self esteem then you might be in a better place to consider what you want your relationship with your mother and sister to look like in the future. Good luck.

As far as it affecting your marriage goes, stop trying to defend them to your husband. I bet when your husband complains about them you are saying things like ‘it’s just how they are’ and ‘there’s nothing I can do about it’. To him you probably sound like an echo of your sister.

The fact that you are still in contact with a mother who sides with your sexual abuser suggests you need more help than you realise.

Instead of arguing, either at home or in couples counselling, agree with him that they are toxic and ask him to support you in going no or low contact. I would suggest that the stress caused by your dysfunctional family has a bigger effect on you (and therefore your marriage) than you’d think.

Obviously this is assuming that your husband is generally a nice person without any major vices. 💐

I don’t know why she doesn’t go to the source of the problem and deal with it
You want your mum to do this but then you don’t want to (and neither does she). That’s not unreasonable! Who does want to tell their family they are rude or entitled? No one is going to take that well.
From my own experience I’ve had to cut family members like this out of my life. I can’t stand by anymore and watch them ruin family events or spend the entire time biting my tongue and then feeling like I’m going to explode by the time I get home. It’s miserable. My DH is understanding, as their behaviour is obviously difficult for everyone but it gets to the point where he is fed up of hearing my moaning. I decided I either need to accept the way they are (impossible) or cut them out. I don’t have any regrets.
Might be time you sit down and look at what positives your sister brings to your life. Do you enjoy spending time with her alone? If it feels too drastic to cut them out completely just start declining whole family invites and do stuff with her without her daughter.

Aquamarine
Sure this is what Changes needs to do. But it takes a heck of a lot of guts to make this reality. Her mother gave her the message all her life she was insignificant. It takes guts to say you’re worth something and stay standing while you continue to be batted down and oppressed... perhaps even at risk of violence. I know. I’ve been there. And still my mother makes out I’m ridiculous for being petrified of her golden child son.

Well said @Mummyoflittledragon but recognising an issue is the first step to dealing with it so @Changes291 you’re already on your path of change

Oh gosh. I forgot to refresh - saw this thread around 6.15 before I posted. She’s so much worse.

I agree terrible narcissist. I’ve had awful things said to me like your mother. It’s incredibly confusing and designed to make you want to desperately prove to your mother that she is adored. She’s hooking you in and reminding you that you are there for narcissistic supply; she is not to be criticised.

As for her continuing to see your abuser, this seems all too common. Your mother, being a narcissist, cannot learn from the past. She looks at your abuse as a fait accompli. It happened and she wouldn’t have been able to change it. Circumstances were too difficult for her. There is no you in her map of the world: you are an extension of her.

Your abuser knows her very very well and this is why they apologised to her. This assuaged your mother of any possible guilt in wrongdoing (if she were ever to feel any). Your mother doesn’t have the capacity or understanding that you are the injured party because she sees everything from her personal viewpoint. Those around are to serve and supply her, not to have their own needs. And you being part of her has received an apology. And you being part of her is supposed to accept it and more on.

As for needing your mother. Please don’t beat yourself up about this. I still feel a pull and need for mine. Rather I have a need for the mother I never had - more precisely the mother I had until I became an autonomous person, rather than a live baby dolly.

Since I stood up to her and put boundaries in place, she has become far better. She actually listens to me now and about half the time responds appropriately. But I know it can work both ways. One thing I can say for certain is she is never going to understand your upset and pain. She doesn’t have the capacity.