To ask Londoners about the (seemingly sneaky) changes in TfL’s congestion charge?

[Piglet89]

We drove to visit friends on other side of London on Saturday 18 July. Today, we received an £80 penalty notice - because the days when Congestion charge is payable apparently changed on 22 June from just weekdays to include weekends.

tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2020/june/temporary-changes-to-the-congestion-charge-to-secure-safe-recovery

Seems this was really poorly publicised; I have an account with TfL and receive regular email travel updates from them: but nothing about this. We had no idea at all.

Anyone else suffered a similar misfortune? Strikes me as an incredibly easy way to shaft people out of cash, particularly if poorly publicised and, unlike Dartford Tunnel fee, you don’t get a chance to pay the charge within 24 hours or whatever.

TFL profits go back into the system. Other than salaries, infrastructure etc no one is taking profits out of it

They can’t change the salaries of those people, though - that’s illegal - and unions often block other changes TFL want to make to pay and pensions and driverless trains etc, hence the strikes. I suspect that the tube and bus service ultimately will be permanently reduced to a more restricted timetable with fewer trains running.

I also think it's unfair to fine for a first transgression. Charge the usual fee with a small uplift eg £20 if it's normally £15.

However, I did know that they were changing the rules and I don't live or drive in London.

I suspect that the tube and bus service ultimately will be permanently reduced to a more restricted timetable with fewer trains running

There was an article in the Times about this the other day/weekend where they were saying it's possible we'll get a Swiss-type railway with regular trains but fewer of them, and hopefully having fewer trains would mean more carriages and more reliability (obviously not more carriages on the Tube). If people are going to be going into offices much less often it makes sense to reduce the services to a lower level as long as it's still enough and there enough carriages. On my line you often find the daytime trains have 4 carriages and they are packed.

@puffinkoala “Swiss-style”. Will it run on time, perchance, or is that too much to hope?

I saw it on the news and it said it would now be 7 days a week (instead of 5) until 10pm (instead of 7??) And £15 (up from £11)
So, accepting all this drove into London last week, went to pay the next day and its £17.50 if you dont pay on the same day.

I have just spoken with TFL again

Even if you had an account (which I do pay every year) you were not necessarily emailed (depends on frequency of how often you pay cc)

Every other business/payment account I have inform me of changes Phone, bank, Amazon, Netflix etc but TFL doesn’t see that as a necessity

See? Even “on it” people like @Mothermorph are getting shafted.

Disgraceful.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

EveryDayIsADuvetDay you are slightly right, the government explicitly said to: Halt children’s free travel Change the hrs of the freedom pass Increase fares next year etc Reinstate the congestion charge, - the amounts and additional hrs were down to Khan but the letter does say “urgently bring forward proposals to widen the scope and levels of these charges”.... I hate both Khan and the Tories for this, more so for the children. I think Khan should that stood his ground, it’s too late campaigning for the reintroduction of children’s travel now. Did he honestly think the government would let TFL all walk out?! Crap negotiator!

agree with all of that - BUT on the other hand , Sadiq has refused to put up tube fares for years - as electioneering. So that's on him And he has also reduced bus fares - £1.50 for two bus rides within an hour

I am not complaining about this by the way - I personally benefit.

But I think that is the flip side. If he had put fares up by inflation the last 3 years or so , then TFL finances would be much better than they are - and better able to weather this storm.

I actually agree with changes to the hours of freedom pass - any freedom pass holders that want to take up a seat and travel in rush hour should pay like everyone else
and I also think kids should pay for the bus (and I have two kids with Zip cards) as so many kids use the bus for one stop - crowd off everyone else, abuse the bus driver etc, take up all the seats etc etc
A reduced fare - but none the less a fare of some sort

Free kids bus fares are relatively new - we always paid as school children (my dad use to buy me a termly pass for £40 - I remember it well)
Mind you, I don't think we were any better behaved for it and definately used it for one stop rather than walking.

I actually agree with changes to the hours of freedom pass - any freedom pass holders that want to take up a seat and travel in rush hour should pay like everyone else and I also think kids should pay for the bus (and I have two kids with Zip cards) as so many kids use the bus for one stop - crowd off everyone else, abuse the bus driver etc, take up all the seats etc etc. A reduced fare - but none the less a fare of some sort. Free kids bus fares are relatively new - we always paid as school children (my dad use to buy me a termly pass for £40 - I remember it well)

I personally think the mindset of this whole city /
Country needs to change. Those struggling in society today, on the whole, are young families-not the over 60s. The freedom pass imo should be treated like the tv license- but kids travel you don’t touch!
We have more kids living in poverty than 20yrs age when I was in school. All the essentials in life: shelter, food,utilities- the none negotiable have gone up in price. It’s not right to compare it to 1996 where it cost 40p for a bus journey.
The one stop argument is also a red herring, my nephew has 2 Stops to his school but it’s up hill, you don’t get a locker, so everyday he carries copious amounts of books and kit etc- he has every right to use public transport.
We go on about free education and how lucky we are in the U.K., whilst we are it’s not truly free. If you have two children in secondary school, you may be paying £30-60 a wk in lunch money, then you want to charge parents for travel. Ok they say “means test” it but that squeezes the “just managing” even more, plus you will get kids whose parents forget or just can’t be bothered to apply. My nephew already sees kids at his school who have no balance on their lunch card.

I think it's ridiculous that, as soon as you hit 60, EVERYONE gets free travel. I got my pass in March so have only used it once but I think it's mad. DH and I could easily pay for our travel as could most over 60 Londoners we know. It would probably cost too much to change or differentiate though. Ditto free prescriptions to everyone over 60

Seems policy surrounding public transport in London is ripe for overhaul.

I mean, none of the policies I’ve seen surrounding motoring in the capital have even touched the sides with regard to congestion and consequent emissions in London. Standstill traffic on several occasions when driving through London - every single time.

Surely it’s still the most contested city in Europe?

I knew about it and aren't in London

Surely a warning and a request to be within 10 days for the few few months would be fairer

I think it's ridiculous that, as soon as you hit 60, EVERYONE gets free travel.
Not in peak hours, I think, on the tube. Maybe on the bus. But I do agree with you. I think that will have to go. Most over-60s are still working.

This just happened to us! We just thought, oh you don't pay at the weekend etc, and now have an £80 fine.

@Hiddenmnetter its not TfL doing a cash grab. Tfl implements the mayors policies. Sadiq wants better air quality and to reduce cars in London, hence ulez charges. Its not TfL making that decision they just implement it.

Yes, TfL is losing something g like 90% revenue from articles I've read, they have something like 20k employees....thats alot of redundancies if it went bust.

Tfl is also the only transport that gets no government funding compared to other cities around the world...obv exclude bailout. Then they had Sadiqs fare freeze, the vehicle taxes collected no longer go to pay for road maintenance in London but to fix roads outside London. Go figure that one out.

I think instead of scrapping ulez/cc during lockdown they would have been better to charge a small nominal fee (eg £5) Not enough to dissuade people from working but still generating some revenue.

I get occasional emails from TfL and it was definitely in at least one of those. I rarely travel into London, and never by car. I get their emails because I used to use Oyster.

I knew about these changes and don't live anywhere near London. It was all over the BBC news.

As for children paying to travel, everyone outside London has to pay, and always has done. This mindset explains why Londoners just don't get why people elsewhere drive.

But everyone outside London doesn’t pay £15 just to use their car. If you have to drive inside the zone you are buggered. That’s why kids need public transport instead inside the zone.

I'm amazed that in this day and age with all the tech available, that if you are registered on the system, you don't get an automatic text or email saying "you drove here, you need to pay us x amount by y date"

If that doesn't exist, it would seem they are relying on the additional revenue of people not paying.

@06LangClegsInSpace

It will freeze at £80 if you appeal within the 14 day time period.

Then they will reset the 14 day discount from the day they reject the appeal.

As for children paying to travel, everyone outside London has to pay, and always has done. This mindset explains why Londoners just don't get why people elsewhere drive err Londoners drive, I’m one of them.
As for children outside of London, I think it’s outrageous they pay for public transport too. It’s about children not the location

I'm more upset that they removed free child travel and free bus travel for all school age children. People have mad choices about where to send their child to school based on their child being able to travel on the bus for free. That costs each child over £500 a year with no notice given

The changes were very well publicised in the media as soon as they were announced. There were large ads in the Evening Standard on quite a few days so it is most unfortunate for you that you did not hear about the changes.
For the minor cost of £10 per annum you can set up Autopay with TFL, linked to a credit card. The cameras will recognise your car's registration and TFL will send you a bill every month showing your usage. If you don't drive in the congestion charge zone during the year you have lost only £10 whereas if you drive in the zone without paying and don't have Autopay you will incur a penalty of £80 as has just happened.
Unfortunately ignorance of the law is no defence so there is nothing that you can do about this, unfair as it seems.