To ask Londoners about the (seemingly sneaky) changes in TfL’s congestion charge?

[Piglet89]

We drove to visit friends on other side of London on Saturday 18 July. Today, we received an £80 penalty notice - because the days when Congestion charge is payable apparently changed on 22 June from just weekdays to include weekends.

tfl.gov.uk/info-for/media/press-releases/2020/june/temporary-changes-to-the-congestion-charge-to-secure-safe-recovery

Seems this was really poorly publicised; I have an account with TfL and receive regular email travel updates from them: but nothing about this. We had no idea at all.

Anyone else suffered a similar misfortune? Strikes me as an incredibly easy way to shaft people out of cash, particularly if poorly publicised and, unlike Dartford Tunnel fee, you don’t get a chance to pay the charge within 24 hours or whatever.

ahh no!! You for unlucky. As I went through it unaware on a weekend and they waved the fine.

*got

Thank you, excellent Mumsnet hive mind, for taking time to respond! Some useful info here.

I think one of the reasons there has not been more publicity is because theatres , attractions and restaurants are closed in London.

Originally the congestion charge was geared so that people could still drive into London in the evenings and at weekends to go to restaurants, theatres and attractions etc. When things get back to normal I think there will be a huge backlash, particularly from the people whose livelihoods depend on evening and weekend trade who are already so vunerable and trying their hardest to keep afloat financially. Many people are anxious about using public transport, but would be prepared to drive in. I used to use the car park at the Barbican, and the National Theatre quite regularly at the weekend but with the extended hours congestion charge I would have to rethink this.

TFL may benefit, but a lot of vunerable businesses will lose vital revenue.

I feel for you, OP. It's a really harsh penalty.

I think they should let you off on a first offence (they won't of course but it would be the decent thing to do).

I had this a few years ago - was driving to a London hospital that I thought was outside the zone and turned out it wasn't.

I now have auto pay set up (but they even charge you £10+ per car 'admin feee' to do that 😡😡😡)

TFL may benefit, but a lot of vunerable businesses will lose vital revenue.

Sadly TFL won’t have a choice, and the govt is again being contradictory about what it wants to encourage....

I suspect TFL will be in trouble now and in the future. With many forecasted to work from home permanently or at least a few days a week, there won’t be the passenger numbers and fares to fund the tubes and buses, so extended congestion charging might be here to stay. I suspect the children’s free travel and freedom pass, supposedly temporarily suspended, will be permanent too.

Tbh it’s the death of London- maybe a blessing for more local businesses. Growing up in London, I would always drive in for a night out, a meal, a theatre trip, a (soft) drink....now tbh I won’t bother. The charges upon charges- even to take my LO to London zoo, once I factor in all the low emission, congestion charge increase is well over £100 for two of us- hell no.

Good god thanks for the thread op.
I live in the congestion zone do not have a car but run a direct debit account with tfl for dps (Outside zone) car.
I had absolutely no idea. To be fair I may have deleted some humdrum looking emails from Sadiq/tfl over the last few extraordinary months, but one with ‘major change to ccharge days’ or similar as subject I would certainly have read.

I knew about it and i don't live in London(or England for that matter).
Think I read about it on BBC website.

Now checked with dp/alerted and got ‘yes of course I knew where have you been?’ type reply

It’s interesting @HeronLanyon - you’re about the third person on this thread who’s said they actually live in the zone but didn’t know.

Of course PPs who have pointed out that TfL have experienced a massive drop in passenger numbers due to Covid-enforced WFH are correct. Tfl must be desperate to claw some money in, from any possible sources.

Even if the process of implementing the CC changes may have been unfair - as some on the thread think it was.

I do listen to the today programme every morning and missed all publicity on it. To be fair, I do have a very active 10 month old, who’s in danger of decapitating himself if you so much as take your eye off him for a second, so such distractions could well have meant the item was on the radio and I just wasn’t concentrating.

But like I say - notify us and give us a chance to pay the charge first. £80 Fine as a first step is very harsh.

I live in Zone 2 and, to be fair, most people I know don’t own a car - I don’t - so I can see how people might not be tuned in to congestion charges at all.

Yes ! Something like for a limited time first weekend entry automatically sends an info and standard charge notification. Subsequent entries straight to penalty.
I need a good walk today - May walk out to edge of zone and see what signage now says. No cheating by checking online or accepting anything said here. Need motivation to get out. Bloody hell what a life, eh ???

I was very aware - and cross - when the changes were announced.
I initially thought they were effective when first announced, but there was about a month between the announcement and the increased charging periods commencing.
I do live inside the zone though, so I'm possibly more aware than most.

The signage that I've noticed has been changed with the new times.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

Tbh it’s the death of London- maybe a blessing for more local businesses. Growing up in London, I would always drive in for a night out, a meal, a theatre trip, a (soft) drink....now tbh I won’t bother. The charges upon charges- even to take my LO to London zoo, once I factor in all the low emission, congestion charge increase is well over £100 for two of us- hell no.

depending on the direction you drive in - you don't go near the congestion zone to go to london zoo. so check the route - it is very avoidable for most people. I drive into London alot and never need to go in the congestion zone. I get the tube (which is absolutely safe and never been so clean) when I do.

Don't let that put you off taking your kids into London - it is amazing right now.

I hate Sadiq Khan but this one was the Tories

No, it wasn't - part of the deal of emergency funding for TFL was that the congestion charge was reintroduced (it had been suspended for about six weeks at the start of lockdown).
It was Khan's decision to extend the hours (it now runs until 10pm rather than 6pm) and add weekends. It will also apply between Christmas and New Year.

Clearly one of Khan's better thought out ideas to revive the London economy

@Piglet89

It’s interesting *@HeronLanyon* - you’re about the third person on this thread who’s said they actually live in the zone but didn’t know.

Of course PPs who have pointed out that TfL have experienced a massive drop in passenger numbers due to Covid-enforced WFH are correct. Tfl must be desperate to claw some money in, from any possible sources.

Even if the process of implementing the CC changes may have been unfair - as some on the thread think it was.

I do listen to the today programme every morning and missed all publicity on it. To be fair, I do have a very active 10 month old, who’s in danger of decapitating himself if you so much as take your eye off him for a second, so such distractions could well have meant the item was on the radio and I just wasn’t concentrating.

But like I say - notify us and give us a chance to pay the charge first. £80 Fine as a first step is very harsh.

But they were giving some leaway. As I said above DH went up on the 11th July and they wrote saying he had entered congestion charge zone, that the rules had recently changed to weekends. They said they would not be fining him this time , nor did they tell him to pay. Just said in future dont do it again or you will be fined. We live just outside London. DH never drives in London so its the type of news that would go over his head.

This below on tfl website - can’t find any entry re what temporary means or the inidicators for and reversion.
New zone Resident applications being closed August 1st for ‘period’
Obvs the 3 day thing I’d check as that may change separately ?

The temporary changes will be kept under review to ensure they remain effective in light of the transport challenges created by the coronavirus pandemic.

Customers will also now temporarily have up to three days after the day of travel to pay the daily charge at a slightly higher rate of £17.50.

OP I 100% agree with you. The congestion charge and the ULEZ are both cash grabs by TfL to plug up funding short falls.

The changes to congestion charge have been rushed through and very poorly promulgated: very little by way of warning and ramped up to include the weekend and massively increased hours. The £10/year "admin" charge is total bollocks as well. It doesn't cost £10 to automatically charge you for using their systems (no admin charge on my dartcharge account).

The exemptions are very awkward to apply for, you have to pay up front for the application, but they refund it to you with a cheque if it doesn't pass their checks. No other organisation works like this. It is designed to make life with the congestion charge as difficult as possible to extract the maximum money, because it's about a funding gap. All these changes were added very recently with very little consultation about what they're supposed to achieve. The ULEZ was discussed as an option following the EC ruling around air quality in London, but dismissed as impractical and unlikely to work. Then the fare freeze by Sadiq Khan introduced a £700m funding gap so they rushed the ULEZ in (which brings in around £200m I believe).

The thing is, if they need money, fair enough. Raise a specific tax, increase fares, whatever. Sneaky 'charges' like congestion and ULEZ are essentially taxes on the poor that are to fund one of the richest cities on earth. I honestly think TfL can be the biggest scum bags sometimes.

There’s also a plan to stop issuing new residents discounts so if you move into the zone or even move house within the zone you won’t get the discount. Which will make life pretty impossible for lots of people. Again there’s been no coverage of this and there’s been no consultation.

Key workers also were exempt from the charge but for our local primary school caretaker that’s been withdrawn over the holidays but he still comes to work several times a week. He lives a long way out - as many key workers in London do. We’ve been trying to find him a friendly local with a parking space just outside the zone.

I know it’s all been done on the hoof hence no consultation but it seems pretty chaotic and poorly thought through and communicated.

@bruffin that’s great that happened to your DH: but we were given no chance to pay the newly increased charge first. We were given no leeway. What, because we happened to travel a week later than your husband, we deserve the £80 fine? Seems arbitrary.

From different experiences recounted on this thread, seems rules are being applied inconsistently too.

EveryDayIsADuvetDay you are slightly right, the government explicitly said to:
Halt children’s free travel
Change the hrs of the freedom pass
Increase fares next year etc
Reinstate the congestion charge, - the amounts and additional hrs were down to Khan but the letter does say “urgently bring forward proposals to widen the scope and levels of these charges”....
I hate both Khan and the Tories for this, more so for the children. I think Khan should that stood his ground, it’s too late campaigning for the reintroduction of children’s travel now. Did he honestly think the government would let TFL all walk out?! Crap negotiator!

sashagabadon thanks, I’m south east London, I could try going around and down from the north to get to the zoo- bloody schlep !!!
I’m not opposed to public transport but with a 3 year old it’s just so exhausting and prefer to drive for such a thing.

Of course PPs who have pointed out that TfL have experienced a massive drop in passenger numbers due to Covid-enforced WFH are correct yep like thousands upon thousands of other businesses. A company that has 518 people on its payroll earning over £100k- excuse me whilst I loose sympathy!