to civilly ask you to use your cars less

[mosquitofeast]

My last thread was deleted because I was not being "civil" enough, I don't actually think it is a subject there is much room for civility in, but I will try!

My last post was to try and answer some questions about me. Here they are

I think I have answered these.

No I am not a strict vegetarian. I don't buy milk or dairy, but eat it in other peoples houses,

no I don't fly,

foodmiles, well, I take them into consideration, but they are not the only indicator of the environmental impact of food. Tomatoes grown in a heated greenhouse 2 miles away might have more environmental impact than tomatoes grown outside in Spain, and flown in.

I have 2 adopted children, 1 is an adult no longer living at home I currently have 3 foster children, but that is likely to change this week

Yes I have a pet, it came with one of the adopted children.

No I don't smoke

@mosquitofeast

Your thread is COMPLETELY pointless because you are an ideologue with no room for accepting why people choose to live their lives a certain way.

Once you can come down from wherever you are and actually LISTEN to people's lives and their motivations, then you'll have a better discussion.

Until then, enjoy the 100s of critical messages if that's your thing.

I like driving and will continue to do so

@ZeldalovesLink

what do you think I should change in my own life?

From an environmental perspective, go vegan. I can think of fewer justifications for eating meat and dairy than I can for driving short journeys. I assume you don’t believe your taste preferences are more important than the future of our planet, and going vegan is the single biggest thing you can do to reduce your carbon footprint after not having kids, so what’s the reason not to?

And if you think it’s simply too inconvenient, unsustainable, awkward etc. then perhaps you should recognise you have no right to criticise people who drive shorter journeys because they don’t have the time, energy or inclination to walk.

From a personal development perspective, stop treating systematic issues such as lack of access to reliable public transport and local services as individual moral failings, recognise that you are also not doing as much as you could and are therefore just as open to criticism as the people you have been so rude to today, and channel your energies into campaigning for actual initiatives which challenge governmental complacency on climate change and provide better access to transport and services for those who are reliant on cars.

Plenty of people work full time and raise children without a car

Indeed, and I would be very surprised if those people don’t live in city centres where there are good public transport options and a wide range of local shops and amenities. What is possible for people who have the privilege of good infrastructure is not always possible for the people living without those benefits.

I am mostly vegan. More than 95%. As I said, in other peoples's houses I eat whatever I am offered, and I do have foster children on specific diets, and I wouldn't force a child to be vegan.

I do campaign, as I said

@ZeldalovesLink

IMO the words ‘basically a vegan’ mean ‘I want the environmental credentials of being vegan but without actually having to do the work’

It means I don't buy meat or milk for myself, ever. I do eat meat or milk if someone else has prepared it for me in their home, and I do buy it for foster children

Well OP if you can wave a magic wand and make my mobility impairment disappear in a puff of smoke then I will happily walk, cycle use public transport more. However until that time I am pretty much reliant on a car - I live in a village too.

I think that lots of people have set up lives which rely on cars, and once you have set that up, you are sort of trapped. I think in future, with car ownership less widely available, people won't set up their lives like that

That doesn't answer my questions....
Without a car how do I get to work and how do I visit family? I can WFH a couple of days a week and I walk my DS to school (unless I'm dropping him off on my way to work) but there is no way I can get to work on pubic transport. It would take 3x as long on a good day and cost a lot more!
My closest family member lives 40 mins drive away - it would take me 3 hours on public transport to visit them.
I didn't learn to drive until I was 25 but to progress in my career I needed to drive. I got by without a car as long as I could but unless you live in a city public transport is dire.

[quote notheragain4]@mosquitofeast

You don't work full time do you? If you did you would understand why walking 160 minutes doing 2 x 2 mile trips a day isn't feasible on top of working full time. When I lived in London I was able to do nursery run and commute without a car, I can't manage that where I live now and our village's only bus route has recently been cut (it didn't fit around school hours before anyway) you can't say all full timers should manage it just because some do!

I'm moving to a town but the school is 2 miles away, I CANT spend 160 minutes a day walking on top of working 7.5 hours, you can call it cultural all you want but life is too short to struggle for time that much.[/quote]
yes, I work full time

You can ask me. But I'll decline thanks

@HugeAckmansWife

If you don't have a car you arrange your life around that. Accept jobs and choose houses in places that work for you, but, as I have said on the other thread, modern life assumes car use and people choose jobs, schools, houses on the assumption they can and will drive. There is a huge amount of infrastructure that will need to be put in place before you start banning car use.

That is the root of the problem, people building a life around car driving. That leaves a lot of people badly stuck if they lose their license for any reason.

Fair enough. But wouldn’t it be even more environmentally superior to not eat any produce that’s been flown half way round the world? Cut down the need for air travel entirely. Surely eating produce grown in the UK, or if accessible to you, local farm shops stocking their own produce would be even better?

Yes - as long as the produce is vegan. Transport makes up a very small percentage of the overall impact of meat and dairy on the climate, so it’s really not relevant if it’s local or not. Eating local beef is only fractionally more environmentally friendly than eating imported beef.

Eating exclusively local vegan produce is better than eating predominantly imported vegan produce, but eating predominantly imported vegan produce is better for the environment than eating very locally produced beef and dairy.

Have you ever tried taking a (rescued) 16 foot long Burmese Python to the vet by bus?

I imagine it would take care of the social distancing.

@mosquitofeast really you foster 3 kids and work full time but manage to not drive and walk everywhere less than 2 miles, ok, let's say this is true, how long does your school run take and how long does it take you to get to work? Would you honestly consider 160 minutes of walking on top of your full working day if that was the only way you could do it without a car? As that is the reality for lots of people, even if it isn't for you.

A 2 mile journey is approx 30-40 min walk or maybe 10-15 min in the car.
A lot of people could walk 2 miles but that doesnt neccessarily mean they have available time to do so. It's all very well saying generations ago people walked miles, or people without cars do it. But the reality is if you have to drop kids at a certain time and get to work by a certain time (neither of which are moveable) then often the only option is to drive.
My DS went to an after school club. In most circumstances I would walk (about 3/4 mile) from the station to school to collect him. When the train is delayed I get a cab as it is cheaper to get a cab than pay a £15 fine for collecting late and I dont want to inconvenience the afterschool club staff.

You can ask and I'll just say no, I'll drive my big diesel burner up and down the motorway thank you.

@mosquitofeast so you work full time away from the home do you?
If not, you are literally talking about a lifestyle that you have no idea about.

Have you not get the message yet?
You are coming across as poorly informed, arrogant and with a worrying lack of empathy.

You can compare it to years ago all you want, but there's more traffic on the roads now, the cars are faster, bigger and the drivers are shite. Why would we walk places where its dangerous?

well, its the traffic I am complaining about! It there was less traffic, it would be much easier to walk.

I’m in awe of how you manage your lifestyle without having to drive!

I definitely need mine for work though.

[quote AldiAisleofCrap]@mosquitofeast am impressed you take all three foster children to multiple contact visits on public transport. That must take some time.[/quote]
like I said, it is a cultural difference. I don't have that many contact visits, as it happens, taking mostly trafficked children

Tell me OP why is it that you buy milk and meat for your foster children?

Is it because you recognise that it isn’t your place to impose your non mainstream views on them?

If you can understand this I fail to see what you want out of this thread other than a row.

I'm going to ignore the last thread (which I read) and take this one in the new, civil, spirit in which it was posted :)

Where I used to live, I usally walked the kids to primary school. It took about 15 minutes. We did use the car if late, or bad weather etc. When I was working I always used the car as I would be late if I had to walk home again first. I have no issue with this, and I think most people were similar. However there were a few parents who always drove, even though they were well, lived nearer than me, and just went back home afterwards. I think these are the people who OP should be focussing on, but I think there are fewer of them than you might think.

The big issue here, though, is the lack of public transport outside of big cities, and the expense of it.

When my kids started secondary school, the public bus home cost £9 a day. If I went to pick them up, my petrol cost about £1.80 a day. So I always drove.

Now we have moved and are only 5 miles away, but have same issue. No safe cycling route. Bus pass costs £20 p/week per child and I have 3 DCs. Petrol costs £10 a week for school journeys, so by driving I save £50 a week. I also take/collect another local child every day. So again, it's a no-brainer.

If public transport were better, people would be more able to do without their cars, or have fewer cars in each family. Also, if most public transport routes didn't follow the 'hub' approach and took people where they actually wanted to go. When a journey takes 25 mins by car, but 3-4 hours by public tranport because you have to go into town then out again, almost everyone will choolse to drive. This is something that needs societal/organisational change rather than individual actions.

@notheragain4
I'd put money on her full time job is being a foster carer.

A very worthy job but hardly comparable time wise to someone who's doing a nursery and school drop off 5 days a week and expected to be at their desk looking presentable by 9am!

I don't eat any dairy and I eat very little meat, have done for several years. Partly for health reasons, partly because both are better choices for the earth.

However, I travel and drive a lot with my work. If I wasn't willing to travel I wouldn't have my job. I love my work, it gives me so much in terms of my mental health that I'd never willingly give it up. If I went to my employer and told them I wasn't willing to travel they'd have no choice but to ask me to leave because whilst I can do some of my work remotely, the most important parts aren't able to be done that way.

I fly within Europe 3/4 times a month for work, and we take holidays abroad at least twice a year. Again, I don't want to give those up, so I pay additional costs to offset the carbon whenever I can (fortunately my employer is very pro-this, so when they're paying for flights they don't query it).

I think rather than expecting everyone to do x, y and z, we should ask everyone to do more. If your more is recycling, gardening and walking more, great. If your more is cutting meat and dairy out, great. If your more is leaving your car at home one week a month, great. Rigid rules won't work simply because everyone's capacity to adhere is different; lower your expectations and do it in a way that accepts that not everyone can make the choices you make.

@PajamasnoDramas

Well OP if you can wave a magic wand and make my mobility impairment disappear in a puff of smoke then I will happily walk, cycle use public transport more. However until that time I am pretty much reliant on a car - I live in a village too.

you are not included in the "unnecessary" drivers , though, are you?

@notheragain4 I’d really love to know where OP gets all this time from. How old are the children as that may also be a factor.