to civilly ask you to use your cars less

[mosquitofeast]

My last thread was deleted because I was not being "civil" enough, I don't actually think it is a subject there is much room for civility in, but I will try!

My last post was to try and answer some questions about me. Here they are

I think I have answered these.

No I am not a strict vegetarian. I don't buy milk or dairy, but eat it in other peoples houses,

no I don't fly,

foodmiles, well, I take them into consideration, but they are not the only indicator of the environmental impact of food. Tomatoes grown in a heated greenhouse 2 miles away might have more environmental impact than tomatoes grown outside in Spain, and flown in.

I have 2 adopted children, 1 is an adult no longer living at home I currently have 3 foster children, but that is likely to change this week

Yes I have a pet, it came with one of the adopted children.

No I don't smoke

[quote allfalldown47]@mosquitofeast so you work full time away from the home do you?
If not, you are literally talking about a lifestyle that you have no idea about.

Have you not get the message yet?
You are coming across as poorly informed, arrogant and with a worrying lack of empathy.
[/quote]
yes, I work full time away from home

@mosquitofeast actually in the UK, being near public transport links and not having a car is a luxury! my MIL survived with 4 children and no car primarily because in her day, you could buy a 4 bed house in London for £100k. Now for the same area, you need £400k for a flat and 700-800k for a house.

Most younger people can't afford it so they move out. even during my MIL's time she had to stay in a studio flat for 10 years before she could afford the house ( and that was with 3 kids). DH and I are following in her footsteps, we bought a 2 bed flat 2.4 miles from where she lives, so she can walk to us and visit us (she does this once a week now). However, this means we have to play the long game, save and increase earnings over many years to afford a house and live in our flat if we don't. All this so we don't need to drive, amongst other things.

I think a lot of MNetters may not be at the age or have the years we have to slowly save up for a house in a city/town with good transport links so they don't need to drive. That is almost always more expensive than the house in the village. Or they may not want to.

I use my car because I’m disabled. But at the minute, I’ve made a personal risk assessment due to COVID and don’t feel happy to get the bus, for the sake of others as I can’t wear a mask.

You only disclaimed physical issues in your last thread. So if I could walK and get the bus (I can’t, but hypothetically) I’m currently choosing not to because if COVID as I don’t want to put others at risk due to me not being able to wear a mask.

Guess I’m one of those slave traders or whatever it was from the last thread?

@ mosquitofeast

Certainly you can ask me.

However, I will not be changing my car use or my lifestyle at your request.
I also consider it very rude to try to impose personal beliefs or lifestyle choices on others, and have said this to Mormons, Hare Krishna, Christians, save the planet, vegetarians, Lutherans and every person I've had the misfortune to meet who thinks that I need to change how I live my life because of their own personal values and beliefs.

Have a lovely day.

*Always bemused by people who believe themselves in a position to preach to others about how they should live or what they should do.

I marvel at the arrogance of thinking it's your job to correct the behaviour of others. Particularly when that behaviour is perfectly legal.

Where do you think this superiority comes from?*

Ha ha. Are you new to mumsnet? That’s exactly what about 80% of the discussion consists of...

I don't actually believe you but let's take you at your word.

So please explain how you get to work? Get your foster children to school? How do you do those bits of shopping/errands on your way home from work etc?

The least we all deserve after post after post of you preaching to us, is how you manage to never use your car for short journeys.

Please enlighten us all.....

I also, in normal times, have to travel a LOT with my job.

If I don’t do this, I would have no job.

What do you suggest I do?

I wfh as much as possible, but that is dependant on the dirty internet and there are times when my travel will definitely be unavoidable.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/stories-51742336/dirty-streaming-the-internet-s-big-secret

It means I don't buy meat or milk for myself, ever. I do eat meat or milk if someone else has prepared it for me in their home, and I do buy it for foster children

What is it about consuming it in someone else’s home makes you believe it magically doesn’t have an environmental impact?

I understand why you don’t want the children you foster to have to follow a vegan diet if they’re only with you for a short period of time - you presumably want to make their surroundings as familiar as possible. But a vegan diet is suitable for people of all ages, including children, so if they’re with you for a period of years I don’t see why you couldn’t become a vegan household?

I am comparing them because they are each a case of one ultra privileged class inflicting pain, misery, hunger and ultimately death on another group of people, in a society that accepts such behaviour now, but will view it with horror in the future.

I think you’re doubling down on this comparison because you feel defensive about being challenged, but presumably you don’t genuinely see these as the same?

Slavery involved literally denying the humanity of a whole group of people, stealing them from their homes, denying them links to their families, cultures and histories, selling, beating, raping and killing them, forcing them into labour, denying them any kind of autonomy or rights or safety.

Driving a car means, at the very worst, placing your personal convenience ahead of your responsibility to the planet (much like you do every time you drink milk and eat meat because it’s convenient for you). It may cause indirect harm, but on a small scale.

Tell me how these things are the same? And tell me why you reached for this comparison when there are thousands of others which might have been more suitable? The U.K. is full of statues people who wreaked havoc on the U.K.’s forests in the industrial revolution, or pioneered coal power, etc. You could have made that much more suitable comparison but instead you decided to completely minimise slavery by suggesting it’s a comparable issue to driving cars. I don’t truly believe you can consider them the same; you’re just unwilling to back down because you’ve built this whole thread on holding the moral high ground.

Can you link to the research showing 'most' journeys are less than two miles and are unnecessary ?

Actually, given how dirty the internet is, why are you posting here?

I thought OP said on the other thread she'd experienced contraception failure and that's why she had 5 kids? Now she's got 2 adopted and 3 foster kids?

The thing is OP it's all well and good you trying to be more 'civil' but on the other thread someone pointed out that their mother needed to make frequent hospital trips in a car and your response was that she should just move closer to the hospital! You know, because someone in ill health can so easily do that, never mind the finances involved or the fact they might actually like where they live.

You can't say inflammatory stuff like that and expect people not to get defensive.

Apologies if this has already been said - I've only skimmed the thread.

We need to put serious pressure on the developers and the council planning departments, to make them ensure that new developments are integrated, and have the necessary services, so people don't necessarily have to drive everywhere.

I see way too many new housing developments that JUST have houses - no schools, shops, social centres, gps etc - no thought given to how people will live there. There's a new development going up near where I live (which is fairly rural) - and as far as I can see, there is no way people are going to be walking to the shops - given the distance and location, it just is not practical - but no thought has been given to this before dumping about 100 homes in a field in the middle of nowhere.

Well I don't even own a car because I'm an eco-saint

Disclaimer: I totally would if I could afford it, walking everywhere is completely impractical and due to arthritis, I barely ever even get into town these days.
I care about the environment but I'd still bite your hand off for a driving licence and a car!

Ooooooh did have 5 kids on the other thread, I forgot about that. And she commented on the contraception failures she had.

well, its the traffic I am complaining about! It there was less traffic, it would be much easier to walk.

And yet you're not going to lower the amount of traffic so why complain? Your words have zero effect on the world.

Also. I’m moved here 5 years ago. My condition - the main one - was managed at a clinic at the local hospital 8 miles away.

That clinic is now at a regional centre and 50 miles away.

They send an ambulance when I can’t drive myself. Because there’s no public transport that gets me there on time.

How is that more effective than me going in a car?

Impossible for me not to use a car. I live in the middle of nowhere. Not a single shop within a 10 mile radius.

Ok op is there a SAHP in your household?

If you work full time out of the home but have 3 foster kids, they must go to school or childcare. Or they are older?

Most people with young children and both parents working full time struggle with the timing of childcare pickups and drop offs without resorting to a car for a short journey.

Eg if you are collecting at 2 yr old from nursery at 6pm, you need to get that child home & bathed for bed, it's not the time for a 45 minute walk on a cold dark winters evening after work.

OP, I assume you have a SAHP?

I have a severely disabled child who spits a lot. That's on top of trying to hit you if you cough or make any other noise. Do you want him next to you on public transport?

Allfalldown

I dont believe OP either. No way will they foster multiple children to two full time working parents.

Either OP is fibbing, or her DH is a SAHP facilitating her never ever needing to drive short distances.

I'm not surprised this has gone badly as people reacted the same when there was a thread about air travel too. However, that did suprise me. I thought people were more open to doing more for the environment, but it seems not unless they can do it without putting themselves out.

OP, just before lockdown, DP and I decided to give it a try with just one car. I started to get the train to work. Then lockdown happened and we've barely needed the one car!! We'll continue to try and use it less. I can cycle to work if needed, and DP can work from home. It's not much, but we're trying to do a little bit.

thought OP said on the other thread she'd experienced contraception failure and that's why she had 5 kids? Now she's got 2 adopted and 3 foster kids?

I increasingly think we are being strung out by a goady fucker with an agenda chaps. I say we all leave her to it.

@mosquitofeast

My last thread was deleted because I was not being "civil" enough, I don't actually think it is a subject there is much room for civility in, but I will try!

How gracious of you

My last post was to try and answer some questions about me. Here they are

I think I have answered these.

No I am not a strict vegetarian. I don't buy milk or dairy, but eat it in other peoples houses,

You're either vegetarian or you're not.

no I don't fly,

I have to sometimes. I haven't worked out another way to get from the ME to the UK with a small child and luggage that doesn't take less than a week..

foodmiles, well, I take them into consideration, but they are not the only indicator of the environmental impact of food. Tomatoes grown in a heated greenhouse 2 miles away might have more environmental impact than tomatoes grown outside in Spain, and flown in.

Might have? Surely, if you want to be taken seriously, you'd have facts and research about it.

I have 2 adopted children, 1 is an adult no longer living at home I currently have 3 foster children, but that is likely to change this week

And?

Yes I have a pet, it came with one of the adopted children.

I have 6 pets. All rescues, so a bit like recycling really. Green enough for you?

No I don't smoke

You should try it, might help you unclench.

I also live rurally. Nearest shop, 1hr45 mins to walk to. DS' preschool, 1hr49 mins to walk to. They're my two main journeys so no, can't drive less for those. And I still can't get a shopping delivery slot for love nor money where I am, and the nearest supermarket is 9.5 miles away. Not really possible to walk that, carry it all back AND have time for the school run.

Naff off basically. Not driving much suits you. It certainly doesn't suit everyone, regardless of how civilised you are.

• No I don't smoke

You should try it, might help you unclench.*

Weed, that would certainly make her do that.