Government tackling obesity missing a key element

[HeeeeyDuggee]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53546151

Government have announced measures to tackle obesity

AIBU to think that although it’s all well and good banning buy 1 get 1 free and advertising before 21:00 what they really need to do is make fresh fruit and vegetables and good quality meat cheaper for people to buy.

It may be a regional thing but buying enough veg for the week here costs a fortune and it goes off within days. Where as you can buy a massive packet nuggets and chips for much less.

Pre covid it was bad enough for lots of families but given the ramifications on jobs and the economy I think lots more families will struggle to afford decent healthy food.

Ps not a fat persons bashing thread I myself am over weight

@Crunchymum

No, I did not have bariatric surgery. I was not fat or unhealthy enough. I did it without that, but I think I am unusual in that. I have a colleague who did have surgery last year and it changed his life. I think it's really a tool to help those who want to lose weight but who can't follow a restricted or fasting diet in the longer term.

Something like 60% of over 18s are overweight and 70% of 45-65 year olds.

I really don’t agree with essentially upping the cost of ‘unhealthy’ food though (I.e sugar tax) particularly without a massive push on education as it just turns into yet another ‘poor tax’.

Not necessarily. It doesn't always follow that poor people eat junk food. I thought the sugar tax was a good idea (even though to agree with anything the Tories do is mildly upsetting to me ) and I think it should be taken further by putting up the price of shit like crisps and biscuits and Snack-A-Jacks which no one actually needs to eat and which have no nutritional value - I can't see why that wouldn't steer people towards making healthier choices, especially if money's tight.

People need to learn to moderate for themselves rather than being banned from having x or y. And there people do need to take responsibility for themselves.

But it needs to be a level playing field, and it's not.

I once sat talking to an ex Mars employee who told me about the team of pyschologists Mars employed - whose job it was to psychologically push people into wanting more Mars foods. Admittedly their experience was a few years old by that point, but still.

It is not a fair fight when the food companies employ psychologists to look at ways to make people want to eat their food more.

Frozen veg is cheaper and lasts weeks not days.
As far as I am concerned, healthy eating is a mindset. If you think that chicken nuggets & chips are easier/ quicker to cook than a vegetable chilli from the slow cooker, you have a hard time changing people's minds.

(Veggie chilli: some frozen vegetables, can of tomatoes & kidney beans in chilli sauce - easy! Or leave the chilli sauce and use plain & season yourself!)

No, I did not have bariatric surgery.

I wonder if, being pragmatic, bariatric surgery routinely done before people are very fat. No judgment that you have somehow failed or lack moral fibre.

I've lived on very low incomes, and to me, the expense is never of the fruit and veg itself. Look at the Aldi Super Six. Usually 59p per item.

Let's say you needed all six per person per week for a four person family = £14.16 for 24 bags/items of fruit and veg. (that would be a large amount, and you would almost certainly not need all of it)

But the cheapest items aren't consistent, so you have to know how to cook each, you have to go to the shop to get them or have them delivered, and you need the time to cook them properly (which also has energy costs).

Eating cheaply on a low budget is easy - if you're rich enough to afford the house near the office so your commute is reduced, your own car so you can have a less stressful trip and go straight to the shops, not have to worry about bulk buying, and perhaps had a family with a stay at home parent who had time to teach you different cooking methods etc.

It's easier to live on a smaller budget if you have more money.

@AmberShadesofGold

People need to learn to moderate for themselves rather than being banned from having x or y. And there people do need to take responsibility for themselves.

But it needs to be a level playing field, and it's not.

I once sat talking to an ex Mars employee who told me about the team of pyschologists Mars employed - whose job it was to psychologically push people into wanting more Mars foods. Admittedly their experience was a few years old by that point, but still.

It is not a fair fight when the food companies employ psychologists to look at ways to make people want to eat their food more.

Every big business has that.

Why do you think bread is in a back of the shop.
They may entice you to buy it, but it is up to you how often and how much of it you will eat.

I bet bariatric surgery would be cheaper for the country as well, compared to dealing with all the health complications from being overweight.

I was joking with my comment about banning chocolate, though I do think Cadbury's are doing their bit with the foul tasting stuff they make now. I sometimes wonder if I'd be better off swapping chocolates for vaping, or gin. I don't drink, smoke or eat meat and I'm still fat. I think it's always easier to substitute than to stop.

As I understand it bariatric surgery actually works as well.

Thing is though, do you really need to eat that healthily to not be obese? I don't get all these excuses people come up with all the time. There's loads of fruit and veg that is not expensive. Also loads of meals that aren't 'bad' that are cheap / easy. Take outs cost a fortune but you see plenty of them in poorer areas where obesity is a problem.

People need to get off their arse, do some exercise and not eat large portions of crap all the time. It's about time people in this country started to take a bit of responsibility Instead of making excuses.

Frozen fruit and veg is cheap and just as healthy. You should be cutting down on meat anyway so try to eat it as little as possible and concentrate on fruit and veg and good grains.

I think it goes beyond enticing you to buy it.

I genuinly think it is psychological warfare. See my note above about how they target children to
a) help develop a sweet tooth that will last through to adulthood
b) make a link in people's mind beteen happy childhood memories and junk food so that those same foods become comforting to adults

When acholohol companies started sublty targetting underage drinkers with alchopops, we put a stop to it. When cigarette companies did the same thing, by linking cigarettes to being grown up and cool, we put a top to that.

We need to use the same approach to sugar (and other junk) and the way they target sports and music events that are attended by children. Or cereals with so much sugar in them that are taregtted at children. Or links with toy companies to target children.

It's not right and needs to change.

@Regulus

Completely agree with this. Need a sports specialist in all primaries - who can actually coach and teach sport properly. Completely trad approach to sport in this country and by secondary most kids are lost to regular exercise in school. Even my sporty kid hated school PE. All of mine do minority sports out of school that suited their abilities.

Also agree with posters noting the need to change structural factors. Just targeting food won’t work

People need to get off their arse, do some exercise and not eat large portions of crap all the time. It's about time people in this country started to take a bit of responsibility Instead of making excuses.

We've had that message for decades now. How do you think it's working?

@imamearcat

Thing is though, do you really need to eat that healthily to not be obese? I don't get all these excuses people come up with all the time. There's loads of fruit and veg that is not expensive. Also loads of meals that aren't 'bad' that are cheap / easy. Take outs cost a fortune but you see plenty of them in poorer areas where obesity is a problem.

People need to get off their arse, do some exercise and not eat large portions of crap all the time. It's about time people in this country started to take a bit of responsibility Instead of making excuses.

There was a guy who lost weight on just maccies. He was not healthy, but didn't put weight on.

It is portions.

@notasillysausage

Absolutely - people are hugely patronising to the overweight.

I knew bloody well what made me overweight AND how to fix it.

People who've never lost a substantial amount of weight don't know the sheer psychological will involved. The simplest way I can spell it out is this:

Losing six stone meant that for the best part of two years, I had to be in physical pain from exercise or hunger every single day.

(Oh, and I had to decide what to put in my mouth for every meal, pre-plan every social event to fit with my diet and exercise plan, exercise willpower every time someone offered me a cake. All. The. Damn. Time. Oh, and do everything less that life demands of an adult with responsibilities. Oh and keep an eye that my diet habits aren't becoming an eating disorder in itself.)

I'm not saying that it's like this for everyone. Some people are compatible with easier diets. I'm in it for the big picture, and the people who've taken an easier route in dieting have all regained.

The people who say it's simple without any personal experience can fuck the fuck off to the far side of fuck and then fuck off some more.

Taking offers away, and banning adverts etc will make zero difference

South Korea is a really interesting case study for this. When they started seeing the "globalised diet" in S Korea (i.e. infiltration of ultra processed & fast food) the government stepped in - they provided free cooking workshops to thousands of workers in making traditional S Korean dishes; they had mass media campaigns to promote local foods and TV programmes emphasising supporting home grown produce and local farmers. When S Korean children watched TV in the 1980s, instead of the junk food adverts that we were/are subjected to, they instead saw government endorsed messages about locally grown foods.

The S Koreans today aren't quite as slim as they were before the globalised diet hit them, but the government continues to promote whole grains, vegetables and so on, and the people do eat far more vegetables than people in most other wealthy countries.

Thing is though, do you really need to eat that healthily to not be obese?

No, that's why this thread, like so many others, has been so derailed, obesity and unhealthy eating are not as related as this thread suggests - certainly with some metabolic disorders that might come as a result of unhealthy eating, then weight control becomes much harder, but that's a long time down the line.

I think the food choice line is just because it allows people to look down on people and "blame" them, rather than look at actual causes and reasons, it's just much easier to use blame.

It's portions/it's sugar/it's carbs/it's cost/it's PE in schools etc etc. I suspect there are almost as many reasons for being obese as there are obese people. But you won't reach anyone if the starting point is "you're lazy and weak willed". How does the NHS tackle smoking and alcoholism, is the approach to that any more successful?

I cook from scratch most days.
I’m vegetarian, I exercise every day. I can resist chocolate, I have the money to buy veg, I have never eaten a McDonalds, Burger King, KFC or Nando’s.
I’m also as fat as all fuck.

Deal with inequality and poverty

Ok so I live in social housing on a fixed income. I retired early due to the effects of a genetic condition causing too many problems to keep working. I was self employed so no work pension. I’m from an immigrant background. Eating healthily and cheaply is not a problem. My meals revolve around pulses, tinned tomatoes, onions, garlic, fresh bread, homemade pickled veg, milk, eggs, fruit with a longer use by date such as oranges, apples, pears. My parents and grandparents lived in poverty both in their birth country and here. There were many problems but eating healthily and cheaply wasn’t one of them. There is no good banning sweets from near checkouts or not advertising junk food before 9. The culture of cooking meals at home as was done before the arrival of ready meals and McDonalds etc, needs to be introduced to kids in school in the form of regular practical cookery lessons from KS1 onwards. Kids need to be taught how to shop, how to budget and how to cook and enjoy good, simple food.

@IceCreamAndCandyfloss

A healthy diet doesn’t need to be expensive, it just takes more effort.

Seasonal fruit/veg is very cheap, there’s also frozen and tinned. As are pulses etc.

Exercise is also free and makes a big difference too.

We don’t need the government to subsidise it or give people more money, we should be spending taxes on others things not paying people more money than we do already in many instances.

I agree. Also, my mum and dad were terrible cooks . I ate complete crap till I was about 20 then taught my self to cook.

I think the answer is not to try and reduce the number of obese adults now (I don't mean take all support off) but to prevent there being more obese adults in the future by offering support to families to ensure people know how to ensure their children will become healthy adults. This can be done by supporting schools to provide a healthy lunch to all children and offering adults lessons on how to cook healthy and nutritious food at home and how to manage this with lower budgets too. If families wont have to factor in a lunch cost that will already help.

Also there should be lessons at school for children on how to do basic cooking of normal healthy meals. Stuff like a bolognese from a tin of tomatoes rather than a ready made jar of sauce etc. Also basic education on nutrition should be offered.

Just my thought on this matter.