Government tackling obesity missing a key element

[HeeeeyDuggee]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53546151

Government have announced measures to tackle obesity

AIBU to think that although it’s all well and good banning buy 1 get 1 free and advertising before 21:00 what they really need to do is make fresh fruit and vegetables and good quality meat cheaper for people to buy.

It may be a regional thing but buying enough veg for the week here costs a fortune and it goes off within days. Where as you can buy a massive packet nuggets and chips for much less.

Pre covid it was bad enough for lots of families but given the ramifications on jobs and the economy I think lots more families will struggle to afford decent healthy food.

Ps not a fat persons bashing thread I myself am over weight

The NHS nutritionists as a family we have come across you have to wonder what sort of training or just general knowledge they have.

I attended a couple of their clinics and the advice was really quite dreadful.

I can’t eat wheat because it brings me out in eczema.
I explained this as we began the session.
For breakfast I was told to eat 2 Wheatabix.
I said I couldn’t as I was allergic to wheat.

He thought for a while then questioned did Wheatabix contain wheat.

I had to point out that it was in the name.

I was then shown the “food pyramid” and told I mustn’t eat doughnuts and cakes.
I said I don’t like doughnuts and cake and have never eaten a doughnut in my life. He the reiterated that I must not eat them and if I didn’t I would see the weight fall off.

Dd was in hospital waiting for test results and being nil by mouth because she could potentially be going to surgery at any point.

A nurse seeing Dd who is quite slim and vegan refuse food sent round a nutritionist to encourage her to eat.

She pointed at the Nil By Mouth sign and the nutritionist asked what did that mean.
Then when she could eat the nutritionist came round and said she should eat a ham sandwich. Dd explained she was vegan so she was offered an egg sandwich instead.

Dd once again explained about her being vegan and was told not to be so picky.

When the people who are supposed to have an idea about food are clueless then no wonder we are in this state.

Haven't RTFT. Obesity is a very multi-factored issue.

I've often thought that if people who were struggling could receive a 'larder' parcel that may help to get them started e.g. salt, pepper, oil, a few dried herbs and spices, stock cubes, cornflour. Although writing it down that stuff is very cheap.

Ditto for some sort of national 'kitchen kit', so a couple of chopping boards, sharp knives, peeler, measuring jug, baking trays, a casserole dish, wooden spoon and spatula, frying pan, couple of airtight containers, couple of pans with lids. Again, this doesn't cost a lot but would be a big outlay if you literally had no money.

Also the acceptance that eating both cheaply and nutritiously DOES take time and always has... finding the cheaper cuts of meat, planning, preparing, soaking pulses and grains.

And changing people's tastes - people say they can't afford food - this is worse surely if they are fussy and like only a narrow range of things. If you're unfussy to eat whatever fruit and veg is on offer, you can eat extremely cheaply.

As for exercise, if people can walk, they should - it's free. There are lots of parks in this country where people can go to exercise. There are loads of free exercise videos online. There is loads of recipe advice online. It's never been more accessible. There's cheap exercise clothing everywhere. It just requires the intention to do it.

I'm not financially stuck, but it is easier not to exercise and to eat easy, quick food. It's a whole change of mindset that we need. Cheaper food can be more challenging to cook, eat and store - we have a couple of generations of people now who are used to very bland, processed food and we'll never get past that if we don't do something. The thing is, a small cox's apple or two digestive biscuits for a snack doesn't really make any money for anyone. Snack-a-jacks and Special K bars do.

Being healthy is not something that someone can do for you. We have to help people to want to do this for themselves. Whilst we push 'gyms and salads' that's a very unappealing message. I'm convinced that the waitrose / boating like types are largely like that not only because they're better off, but because healthy choices in terms of snacks / alcohol / basic foods are simply a way of life.

www.novonordisk.com/about-novo-nordisk/perspectives/a-weighty-issue.html

This might be a helpful read.

1 bag of frozen veg for a pound, a handful of lentils and a stock cube makes 6 portions of lentil soup.

500g of mince is 3.50, that will do a couple of meals.

Low cost meat and frozen veg is in abundance. That’s not why people are overweight.

The people who say it's simple without any personal experience can fuck the fuck off to the far side of fuck and then fuck off some more.

It is simple. It's a simple food in / energy out equation. People aren't stupid, everyone knows that. I don't understand why people are saying it's down to a lack of education. Do you think anyone over the age of five doesn't know Mars Bars are bad for you and carrots are good for you? The trouble is acting on this simple information and losing weight is almost impossible for most people. That's why I would come back to my point about, why not just do something that actually works and operate on more people without the moral judgment?

@SchrodingersImmigrant

You can't make veg any cheaper. Slave labour is already used to keep costs down🤷🏻 If you can't afford all fresh, frozen and tinned veg is equally as good.

Of course you can make it cheaper. You can tax junk food and use that to subsidise veg prices.

@MintyMabel

1 bag of frozen veg for a pound, a handful of lentils and a stock cube makes 6 portions of lentil soup.

500g of mince is 3.50, that will do a couple of meals.

Low cost meat and frozen veg is in abundance. That’s not why people are overweight.

3 of my local supermarkets DON'T sell tinned lentils. Yes, they may have dried lentils, but who's got time to soak overnight?

The people who say it's simple without any personal experience can fuck the fuck off to the far side of fuck and then fuck off some more.

I was overweight, even as a child I had to see someone to get weighed regularly and was put on all sorts of weird diets. Having lost 7 stone and maintained a healthy weight for the past decade, it really can be that simple if you find something that works for you.

I agree with OP to an extent. People need to be able to access healthy to a reasonable low / cost.

Fruit and veg costs are high and Aldi/Lidl don't deliver. Much of the supermarket produce does go off quickly - I've had issues with fruit from all the supermarkets over the last few weeks. At the height of lockdown I couldn't get certain fresh food items online so we were relying on chips / burgers etc as I still needed to feed my family. I have tried local veg boxes but frankly no one would eat the constant swedes / turnips / cauliflower so it became a waste I couldn't afford.

I have the skills to budget, meal plan and cook but lots of people don't. I have food allergies to take into account, other family members are vegetarian. I find it expensive to buy food for my family

And this is only part of the picture - to stay healthy you also need to exercise. Gyms are expensive, bikes cost money, some areas aren't nice to walk around - fear of safety, dog mess everywhere for example. There is no swimming pool near to me (and they are closed at the moment anyway)

I'm overweight because I can no long do what I used to as I have significant problems with my feet. I have been to the Drs many times and the podiatry service and have been told I have to live with it. This means I can't even walk as much as I could. The weight has gone on and it is hard to shift. I would like someone medical to address my perimenopause issues which are also contributing to my health gain. Again I've been dismissed.

So this Tory intervention smacks a little bit of patronising claptrap to me I'm afraid

There are very few people who do not live within walking distance of a supermarket, there are also very few people who aren’t able to get 50p supermarket deliveries.

I work on an estate in a large town. The estate is mainly social housing so mainly people on a tight budget.
There is a Aldi about a mile and a half walk but when you factor in the time that takes and having to carry it back then it’s not really convenient, especially if you are working two jobs or have small children. The estate has two shops. Both of them are convenience stores. Both stock a very small range of fresh fruit and veg which is a much higher price than supermarkets. When multibuy deals are taken into account a chocolate bar is certainly cheaper than an apple.

Yes a supermarket deliveries can be as little as 50p but you usually have to spend £40 in one go to get a delivery.

At one point the school ran basic cookery lessons for adults. The lack of knowledge of some of the adults was shocking. One person didn’t know how to use a cheese grater.

Considering the main reason people are obese is portion size, by cutting down on portion, they should cut down on costs meaning more can be spent on healthy version.

I'm not sure I agree with this - from what I see as a supermarket worker, the obese customers are buying many more snack foods, cake bars, crisps, bulk packs of chocolate, and the biggest one of all the ironically named muller lights and diet cokes filled with artificial sweeteners (that have been shown to stimulate your liver into storing more in fat cells!)

You put some lentils in a bowl. Cover them with water and leave them overnight. That's it.

It takes a tiny amount of knowledge and planning, some lentils, maybe some scissors to cut open the packet, a bowl and some tapwater, but that's it!

but who's got time to soak overnight?

Is that serious? You don't have to stay awake and watch them soak.

Buying frozen is a brilliant option but not feasible for many - my freezer is absolutely tiny, same as many I know in rented flats.

The problem is that there actually needs to be a throughly investigated, multidisciplinary report into the underlying reasons for obesity in the U.K. rather than a back of a fag packet ‘prescribe cycling’ approach.

South Korea is a really interesting case study for this.

I've heard in SK they also have different social norms, in that if people see you putting on weight its completely normal for them to point it out to you and be quite harsh about it. This is also thought to be a factor in keeping SK slim. If true, I'm not sure it's a practice I'd want here.

3 of my local supermarkets DON'T sell tinned lentils. Yes, they may have dried lentils, but who's got time to soak overnight?

You don’t have time to pour lentils into a bowl and put some water in?

@aGwenhwyfar You don't need to soak red lentils, just chuck them in dry into soups and stews etc. They cook in 15 minutes and mush down completely if cooked for much longer than that!

it really can be that simple if you find something that works for you

A simple survivor fallacy.

I lost 50% of my weight to a healthy weight and have kept it off for more than 10 years without any conscious effort, zero watching what I eat, either when losing it or since, I'm not going to tell other people it's simple, just lose the depression and leave the house occasionally just because that works for me.

Who is soaking lentils? I use dried lentils all the time and never soak them.

I know "fat shaming" is viewed wih horror but the only way to get any of these major societal changes is to make them socially unacceptable.

Smoking, drink driving, even wearing a seatbelt and the grooming of children (often previously seen as girls throwing themselves at men) only changed when society decided it was unacceptable.

@FlamingoAndJohn

Who is soaking lentils? I use dried lentils all the time and never soak them.

I do, but only because the meals I make are only active ‘wet’ for the last 3/4 minutes of cooking.

@athecatsthecats Agree 100%, it's not about the cost of the 'raw ingredients' but the planning and the skills, having the mental and even physical energy to do that. Buying ready made meals or orange freezer food takes less time, thought and yes, easier to carry home if you don't have transport or the money to buy a week's menu plan shopping ahead.

[quote Gwynfluff]@Regulus

Completely agree with this. Need a sports specialist in all primaries - who can actually coach and teach sport properly. Completely trad approach to sport in this country and by secondary most kids are lost to regular exercise in school. Even my sporty kid hated school PE. All of mine do minority sports out of school that suited their abilities.

Also agree with posters noting the need to change structural factors. Just targeting food won’t work[/quote]
Both primary and secondary PE/Games "teaching" is poor. I genuinely thought/hoped that things would have changed since my school days in the 70's, but no, my son has just gone through exactly the same.

Far too much emphasis on team sports where the "non" sporty kids are routinely bullied, ignored, etc. and that's just the teachers! We still have the "wait of shame" as the sporty kids choose their teams.

Still have the case where the "teachers" don't bother to actually teach the rules of the team sports. They just "assume" everyone knows how to play netball, football, rugby, cricket, hockey, etc. That's another area ripe for bullying and ridicule, especially in the first year at secondary where lots of people will be playing a game for the first time, alongside others who've played it at primary or clubs.

Basically, when it comes to team sports, the non sporty kids are set up to fail.

"You don’t have time to pour lentils into a bowl and put some water in?"

To think about doing it the night before? No. I'm not starting to prep a meal 20 hours in advance.
Good to know they don't need to be soaked. I was trying to follow a Jack Monro recipe that called for a tin of lentils.

It’s such a complex issue both for the individual and the NHS.

Rachel Batterham has lots of research on Obesity and treatment etc. Really interesting reading.

Another problem I feel is marketing. Sometimes thinks are marketed as healthy but in reality it isn’t but because the label says low fat low calorie etc people automatically assume it’s better for them.