Government tackling obesity missing a key element

[HeeeeyDuggee]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53546151

Government have announced measures to tackle obesity

AIBU to think that although it’s all well and good banning buy 1 get 1 free and advertising before 21:00 what they really need to do is make fresh fruit and vegetables and good quality meat cheaper for people to buy.

It may be a regional thing but buying enough veg for the week here costs a fortune and it goes off within days. Where as you can buy a massive packet nuggets and chips for much less.

Pre covid it was bad enough for lots of families but given the ramifications on jobs and the economy I think lots more families will struggle to afford decent healthy food.

Ps not a fat persons bashing thread I myself am over weight

My children were normal weights for their heights when they went to secondary school. As soon as they had more freedom they ate more sweets, crisps, fizzy drinks (things we didn’t have very often at home) and school lunch was always pasta.
Meals at home stayed the same, but two of my children got steadily heavier. One didn’t, so was doing something different. I thought I’d done pretty well, but I obviously didn’t. Environment plays a big part, home definitely plays a big part.

People were also more physically active a few generations ago. Work and domestic tasks relied on labour rather than automation. Even things like central heating made a difference, keeping warm uses calories.

Does anyone agree that many of the issues about being overweight are related to emotional eating and a type of addiction? There are many obese people who eat healthy food...but as others have said, they eat too much...or have lots of fruit and veg and fresh cooked stuff but also love baking too much!

So GPS are tontell folks to go on a diet...will that work really? Too many people loose a lot of weight on diets really well, but then it all goes back on over next 5 years.

Given everyone needs to eat something at least most days, does anyone agree that dieting (when overeating is an addiction) is a bit like telling an alcoholic that they must cut down but must still have a small drink 3 times a day...would that ever work as a long term sustainable approach to eliminating addiction ?

Thoughts?

Florascotia- some really interesting points you raise

There are quite a few new takeaways in my town that are thriving even during Covid and they are all those Healthy/Clean living, types of places.
You choose a protein, 2 or 3 veggies and a bit of carbs/grains.
Its a really encouraging sign that things are changing.

Posted by @ToffeeYoghurt a while ago

A guide for Boris re tackling obesity.
Ensuring people have proper housing with access to proper cooking facilities and storage.
Enough money (be it through employment, pension, or benefits) to afford healthy fresh food (no food banks).
An overhauled NHS so people are no longer (as they were pre pandemic) left waiting months on end for treatment (suffering prolonged mobility issues as a consequence).
Also good mental health provision including help and support for comfort eating, and looking again at the pros and cons of the different mental health drugs.
In some cases, certainly when its long-term use, it's perhaps preferable to prescribe the out of fashion benzodiazepines rather than the modern anti depressants that often cause weight gain.
Oh and we'd need to stop dismissing patients symptoms, especially women, as mental health or hormones. I've heard several people talk about this sort of experience when they had undiagnosed thyroid conditions (which can lead to weight gain).
Boris- over to you!!

Given everyone needs to eat something at least most days, does anyone agree that dieting (when overeating is an addiction) is a bit like telling an alcoholic that they must cut down but must still have a small drink 3 times a day...would that ever work as a long term sustainable approach to eliminating addiction ?

No. Because you are not "addicted" to all food. I've never seen anyone claim to be addicted to carrots... You know alcoholics still drink liquids.

Smokers can certainly eliminate, rather than reduce smoking. Unless you think as they continue to breathe it's the same.

You cannot buy nuggets and chips cheaper than you can make a fresh veggie meal from scratch that is BS and a weak argument that has been dispelled numerous times the problem is people aren't educated enough to know how to cook from scratch and budget or they make poor financial choices like smoking and drinking leaving less money for food then they just buy rubbish junk thinking its cheaper. I feed myself on about £20 a week cooking from scratch i buy frozen fruit and veg over fresh and use a slow cooker to keep costs down energy wise. Even if i wanted to eat rubbish like nuggets and chip's or Oreos theres no way i could afford it even 1 pack of Oreos is money in my food budget i don't have. Education around cheap healthy food choices and how to cook on limited fuel is needed for those families in the low income bracket that are struggling and ending up obese and miserable

Does anyone agree that many of the issues about being overweight are related to emotional eating and a type of addiction?

Well for some people yes . But I think Flora is spot on , in a very short time things have changed enormously on society
We have completely normalised having acess to unhealthy food 24/7
We have normalised having treats all the time
We have normalised processed food
We have normalised ‘treats ‘ and takeaways
And we have normalised and socialised the eating of unhealthy food every single day
And we have normalised binge drinking

@florascotia2 totally agree with all of your points. The causes of obesity are so much more complicated and can't be solved with the eat less move more brigade. Obesity is caused by a huge number of interlinked issues and its a difficult problem to solve. It will take huge policy shifts and a change in public attitudes to make any real change.
Its so much easier for government to let people think its all down to their own laziness/ lack of willpower rather than accepting any responsibility and making big changes in policy.

Helena I am sorry but this one isn’t on Boris
And it isn’t about housing
And it’s not all about poverty either
There are a lot of overweight people who have sufficient financial means

Pretty much Every single house in the UK has a fridge and a cooker

This isn’t a Tory thing (and I’m no Tory lover )

It’s a global , societal systemic issue
It’s not just the UK either

I know you are very passionate about social welfare and housing but I don’t agree for this issue

I just had a look on the sainsburys website

Braeburn apples -25p each
Oranges 28p each
Pear 37p
Red or green pepper 43p
450 grams of celery 50p
Iceburg lettice 50p
1kg carrots 50p
Whole cucumber 50p
5 mini pears 60 p for the lot
Savoy cabbage 60p
Bananas 73p for a kg
6 tomatoes 75p
850 grams greengrocer frozen peas - 64p
1kg greengrocer frozen mixed veg - 89p
950 gr frozen sweetcorn- 89p
1kg basics white rice - 45p
1 kg Sweet potatoes loose- 1.10
1 liter melkovita i love milk UHT- 20p
1 daily slice 800 gr wholemeal bread 45p
400 gr KTC chickpeas - 45p (to make your own healthy hummus for on the sandwiches)
Bella napoli 400 gr tin of baked beans - 20p

Do you feel that this is unaffordable? I don't live in the UK but to me these prices seem quite reasonable. I also can't see how they can be produced for much less tbh...

Nick Ferrari questions government's mixed messages over obesity plan | LBC

Published on Jul 27, 2020
The government is launching a plan to cut obesity in the UK. So Nick Ferrari asked the Care Minister why they are paying for people to have half-price meals at McDonald's and Burger King?

The Prime Minister is due to announce plans to ban unhealthy snacks from being displayed at shop checkouts as one of the measures to be included in the new obesity strategy.

Restaurants will also have to display the calories contained in food on their menus.

But Nick queried why the government are trying to tackle obesity on one hand and giving half-price meals at fast-food restaurants with the other.

Its so much easier for government to let people think its all down to their own laziness/ lack of willpower rather than accepting any responsibility and making big changes in policy.

Agreed. It represents outsourcing all health responsibility to individuals when there are so many externalities that are beyond the control/influence of individuals (as in the Foresight obesity systems map).

Most of us are doing the best that we can with the resources available to us at this time.

@Dartfordwarbler
Yes I think you're right.

The shift in society with regards eating habits and the type of food we eat coincides with the restriction of alternative Bad For You respites from a life full of relentless stress, trauma, and/or poverty.

People were thinner in the past but they instead smoked or took tranquillisers to help get them through a miserable life.

Fresh fruit & veg are already cheap if you buy in season. Today, carrots, broccoli, onions, spuds, courgettes, lettuce, cucumber, tomatoes, beetroot, radishes, satsumas, plums, apples - all cheap.

So are chicken, pork, frozen fish, eggs, and cheese.

It’s just planning & a few minutes effort.

They're paying people half to try and save jobs. A takeaway is fine as part of a balanced diet, or you can just order a few things and not half the menu. Some is lack of access to education, sufficient money, sufficient treatment for certain conditions, or not being able to access mental health care for those with BED etc; some is just lazyness and greed though.

@Ormally definitely agree in poor eating facilities in workplaces. I'm veggie over 30 years and that alone meant it was mostly easier to take in lunch than try and find something veggie and not junk near various workplaces, indeed some were in arse end of nowhere on industrial estates with nowhere nearby to get food. Yet so many workplaces don't even provide a kettle! Let alone enough fridge space for all employees or microwave for heating food especially in winter. I've worked in freezing factories where you couldn't even get a hot drink the whole day!!

2-3 generations ago far fewer women worked full time. not true and never has been for the working classes, working class women have pretty much always worked in paid employment in some way.

@Mothermorph I do agree that non food shops selling crap food is an issue too - and not just selling as in stocking but HARD sell too, whs frequently try and sell customers huge choc bars with every purchase as part of newspaper promotions

@Titsywoo the waiting list for allotments where I am is several years! People want them they're just not provided, plenty of car parks though! And also where I live most people are housed in tiny flats which get little sun

@florascotia2 I remember Wednesday half day closing and Saturday early closing, nothing open on a Sunday!

This constant shopping we have now definitely doesn't help.

@Dartfordwarbler I still remember an episode of Oprah from AGES ago when she was discussing her weight issues and her opinion probably based on whoever was helping her at the times theory that for many food IS an addiction. With any other addiction you would abstain altogether in order to recover, but we all NEED to eat every day. As you say that would be like expecting an alcoholic to just have ONE drink every day and not succumb to the addiction. Until we address the emotional factors we'll get nowhere.

At ww meetings most of the members had been through significant traumas, childhood abuse, dv, assault, rape...

1 friend of mine who was extremely overweight for many years wasn't able to lose it until she combined it with intense therapy re csa.

We ignore this at our peril.

@Isthisfinallyit

I just had a look on the sainsburys website

Braeburn apples -25p each
Oranges 28p each
Pear 37p
Red or green pepper 43p
450 grams of celery 50p
Iceburg lettice 50p
1kg carrots 50p
Whole cucumber 50p
5 mini pears 60 p for the lot
Savoy cabbage 60p
Bananas 73p for a kg
6 tomatoes 75p
850 grams greengrocer frozen peas - 64p
1kg greengrocer frozen mixed veg - 89p
950 gr frozen sweetcorn- 89p
1kg basics white rice - 45p
1 kg Sweet potatoes loose- 1.10
1 liter melkovita i love milk UHT- 20p
1 daily slice 800 gr wholemeal bread 45p
400 gr KTC chickpeas - 45p (to make your own healthy hummus for on the sandwiches)
Bella napoli 400 gr tin of baked beans - 20p

Do you feel that this is unaffordable? I don't live in the UK but to me these prices seem quite reasonable. I also can't see how they can be produced for much less tbh...

The cheapest baked beans have much higher sugar and salt content than the more expensive options.

The healthier brown rice option is £1.25 (1kg). More than double the 45p for white rice.

I agree we can't really produce food any cheaper. What we can do is ensure everyone has sufficient income.

Does anyone agree that many of the issues about being overweight are related to emotional eating and a type of addiction?

For some people, yes. But people are eating badly from when they are very small children. I don't think I'm wrong in saying that throughout most of history it was mostly wealthy people who were fat. Poorer people ate less meat, less rich food and more pulses and grains and greens, because they were cheap. Those things are still cheap, but they are the things you see being eaten by aspirational foodies on social media in Buddha bowls!

They aren't necessarily difficult or time-consuming to cook, but they are no longer the things your average person is used to eating. It's not just children who turn their noses up at lentils and kale!

The cheapest baked beans have much higher sugar and salt content than the more expensive options.

That's not true, looking at 2 supermarkets value brand, the salt and sugar content is lower than the market leader.

We must assure people can afford brown rice...

@Thisisworsethananticpated Its not me you are disagreeing with.

Channel 4 news did some pieces on care workers living in cramped shared dwellings and having to share kitchens with several other families.

Channel 4 news did a huge segment on care workers. And how they are under paid , under valued, classed as low skilled and why they cant socially distance due to the appalling places some of them live in.

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Add message | Report | Message posterHeIenaDove Thu 14-May-20 19:14:10
A care worker interviewed lives in one room with her son and they share bathroom and kitchen facilities with ten other families
Hardly an ideal living situation to cook healthy meals

A care worker was ill with Covid for 28 days and was brought a hot meal every day by Hare Krishna She has to walk an hour to get to work and same to get home because she cant afford public transport

www.channel4.com/news/charities-demand-care-home-workers-are-paid-a-living-wage

www.channel4.com/news/charities-demand-care-home-workers-are-paid-a-living-wage

Then on another date they interviewed another zero hours care worker in poor housing.

www.channel4.com/news/nearly-a-third-of-people-have-suffered-health-problems-during-lockdown-because-of-poor-housing

Sheepandcow You are right that many more people in the past did smoke (the peak year was 1948), but the figures differ very substantially by sex (many more men smoked) and by wealth/class/occupation (many more manual workers smoked). IT would be be revealing to link those stats to patterns of food availability and consumption.

According to this short paper, UK smoking rates have been declining since 1974. ash.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/Smoking-Statistics-Who-Smokes-and-How-Much.pdf

Valium use also peaked in the 1970s, also, but it seems to have been replaced by several other drugs. I've only had a very quick search for stats, but it seems, to take just one example, that in 2011, 46.7 million SSRI anti-depressants were prescribed in the UK. But I'm not a medic so have no idea how they might have affected eating patterns.

I think the point you raise about the availability of alternatives to comfort eating is really interesting and needs further investigating. But neither smoking or tranquillisers would be expected to have a significant effect on obesity in children. I think we need to look elsewhere for the causes (plural) of that.