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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Government tackling obesity missing a key element

770 replies

HeeeeyDuggee · 27/07/2020 09:32

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-53546151

Government have announced measures to tackle obesity

AIBU to think that although it’s all well and good banning buy 1 get 1 free and advertising before 21:00 what they really need to do is make fresh fruit and vegetables and good quality meat cheaper for people to buy.

It may be a regional thing but buying enough veg for the week here costs a fortune and it goes off within days. Where as you can buy a massive packet nuggets and chips for much less.

Pre covid it was bad enough for lots of families but given the ramifications on jobs and the economy I think lots more families will struggle to afford decent healthy food.

Ps not a fat persons bashing thread I myself am over weight

OP posts:
Alloverthegrapevine · 27/07/2020 16:15

And yet 2/3 of the population, in an affluent country with free education for all are overweight.

Holothane · 27/07/2020 16:18

I used to cook a lot of my own food now I can’t but still plenty of fruit,.

DancingInDespair · 27/07/2020 16:18

@Staplemaple

According to this thread people are fat because they're poor and can't read.
It's a factor. Poor people are statistically more likely to be overweight. People with poor education are statistically more likely to be in poverty. Correlation is not causation, though.
GlittercheeksOakleaf · 27/07/2020 16:21

This was linked to further up the thread. I haven't looked at it in any great detail but I thought it was worth resharing for those who missed it. You'll need to click on the link to see it fully. It absolutely isn't as simple as eat less move more, there are so, so many factors involved.

assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/government/uploads/system/uploads/attachment_data/file/296290/obesity-map-full-hi-res.pdf

Government tackling obesity missing a key element
Fanthorpe · 27/07/2020 16:23

Obesity and overweight are increasing on a worldwide basis. Interestingly Korea and Switzerland are expected rates to rise quickly, according to the OECD.

FourTeaFallOut · 27/07/2020 16:41

Jesus, statistics don't give a fuck if the fattest person you know is as rich as fuck. Nor, if you like to skip a meal when you are skint. It doesn't care if you understand or not. It is just simply a matter of fact that obesity is more prevalent alongside poverty.

Graphista · 27/07/2020 16:58

“it just takes more effort”

“Exercise is also free and makes a big difference too.”

Which both take time and energy - something the poorer families will struggle to find.

We work crazy long hours in the Uk AND have ridiculous commute times considering how small we are - mainly down to poor transport systems throughout the country!

To REALLY tackle obesity we need a govt who really understands and acknowledges that people need enough time at home TO exercise, cook from scratch, shop etc

There's a certain "start up cost" to cooking from scratch. It's easy to have a store cupboard of dried herbs and spices, even things like oil, salt, garlic when you aren't living pound to pound also true

What these plans also don’t take into consideration are the emotional reasons people eat more than necessary and choose less healthy foods. Mh provision in this country is woefully underfunded and poorly delivered, over eating is STILL not seen as an eating disorder when at least some of the time it definitely is.

I was exhausted and the pounds went on! stress can slow metabolism too, it increases cortisol production which affects insulin metabolism and leads to weight gain.

All aspects of why people overeat/eat unhealthily need to be addressed:

1 cost - not just of the main ingredients, but the things that make a dish tasty and appetising. Also energy and water to cook - and wash up - too. I’m in Scotland where water thankfully hasn’t been privatised but I used to live in England and I hear from friends there the shocking amount of water bills. Transport to supermarkets and cheap retailers also needs looked at, food deserts need to be addressed.

2 Time - we have a horrific work/life balance in this country between ridiculously long hours, presenteeism, poor transport meaning commutes are far longer than necessary and as cv has actually shown employers stuck in the dark ages who don’t like employees working from home when it’s perfectly feasible. Give people more time...and energy to shop and cook and they’ll likely cook and eat healthier foods.

3 education - for a variety of reasons there’s at least 1 generation to my knowledge/experience who’s parents were working long hours and didn’t have the time to teach them to cook AND who didn’t get decent cookery classes at school. Cookery classes are still infrequent and poorly delivered. Bring back proper “old school” cookery classes teaching kids to make things like shepherds pie, casseroles etc good basic, healthy, cheap dishes and I feel certain this would help a great deal.

4 advertising - after 9pm is ridiculous! Will work perfectly in advertisers favour as it will likely motivate people late in the day to order take out or have something “junky” to eat. But I understand why during the day isn’t good either - simple - ban it altogether! Foods that are too high in fat, sugar or additives unless something like cheese which has major health benefits.

how many of us watch regular tv? you have a point there, I rarely watch regular tv now it’s mostly streaming. The only advertising I am exposed to is on the radio.

5 Exercise - while you can’t outrun a bad diet it does help, and is a good thing to do anyway if you can. Yes you can exercise at home or go out running/walking, but people do tend to put more effort in and be guided to exercise properly if they go to classes or a gym. Childcare as a pp said is definitely an issue for many, time again is a factor too, and cost. Here in Scotland until recently schoolchildren and pensioners could in many council areas swim for free and I’m told by hcps I know this did make a difference. Now that funding is being repeatedly cut councils are finding they can’t afford to keep doing this and again I’m being told this is being noticed.

Also walking/running for exercise isn’t really free unless you’re willing to risk long term damage to joints from poor trainers. You need the right footwear at the very least especially as many pavements are in a shocking state! Then for women and girls there are the personal safety aspects, it’s fine in the summer going for a run after work while it’s still light quite a different prospect in winter when it may well be pitch dark before you even get home - and again lighting and other safety factors are not being maintained well at the moment.

6 Food environment - supermarkets and other retailers don’t make a lot of profit on veg, fruit, raw protein so they spend a LOT of money on experts who spend a LOT of time and effort in getting shoppers to buy the products that they do make a good profit on - mainly unhealthy snacks!

@seeline you’re right! Half an aisle of greengrocery and 2 aisles each of crisps & biscuits in my local supermarket! I don’t believe that’s purely due to demand!

Chicken shops around schools in London are heaving at lunchtime

I do think allowing children off campus at lunchtimes was a big mistake! When I was at school you weren’t allowed unless your you had written permission from parents as a kid who went home for lunch, the rest either had packed lunches or ate in the dinner hall - and the dinners were not “chips with everything” which started when thatcher cut funding of school lunch provision. We should go back to having dinner ladies who can actually cook and children having more home cooked style dinners as in the past. I remember having dinners like this and for the most part they were perfectly good meals.

Is it not as simple as calories in - calories out, do "junk" calories count double or something?

There’s certainly at least one theory about this.

Apparently we mostly all eat the same VOLUME of food throughout the day, but those who are overweight and eat less healthily are eating more calorie dense foods - 100 cals worth of lettuce is a fair amount of lettuce, 100 cals worth of biscuit is tiny!

I did ww a few years back and lost a couple stones. This was one of the things they discussed that if you simply cut down what you’re eating you’ll get hungry and be more likely to cave to cravings, you need to replace the unhealthier foods with a healthier alternative by volume. Eg instead of just cutting your portion size in half and facing a half empty plate, you replace what you’re “losing” with vegetables or even low fat protein to fill you up.

I ate more by volume on ww than I ever have in my life! But it was veg, fruit, grains, healthy protein rather than chips and chocolate!

So the nutritional make-up of food is every bit as important as it's calorie content.

Absolutely!

I’m also very anti the demonising of certain food groups, we need them ALL for our bodies to function correctly, certain nutrients need other factors eg healthy fat in order for us to absorb them as well as possible.

It's always baffled me that it's cheaper to buy a Mars bar than a banana or an apple!

This is simply not true though. A mars bar is what 60/70p? An apple or banana is around 15-20p

7 Better screening & treatment for conditions that can cause increased appetite/weight gain - perhaps controversial but seeing as so many berate the overweight for “costing the nhs money” I think it’s only fair to include the FACT that there are many people, especially women, who have to fight for years even decades to get certain conditions which are KNOWN to cause weight gain dx and treated! I’ve several friends/family who’ve experienced this who were suffering from conditions from pcos to undx heart failure and who until they were dx were getting repeatedly “told off” by hcps but once they had a dx and were receiving the appropriate treatment the weight fell off! Thyroid conditions in particular seem woefully under dx and treated in this country.

tootiredtobeinspired · 27/07/2020 17:05

Honestly those of you bleating on about self control and portion sizes. Do you honestly believe that human beings 2 or 3 generations ago were somehow capable of feats of willpower that current generations just somehow fail to achieve?
In the last couple of generations the human animal has somehow spontaneously become lazy, greedy and weak willed??
Look around you, obesity is caused by food manufacturers and producers forcing their products on us at every opportunity and manipulating those products to appeal to our instinctive urge for calorie dense food.
Urban planning, transport etc also plays a role in this. Its all set up to maximise profit and if the side affect is we get fat, then who cares! (certainly not the govt) Bonus is that more money can be made by the diet and fitness industries and then ultimately pharmaceutical and health care.
The best thing is you can then blame the fat people for their own predicament because they were just not good enough people.

Iamthewombat · 27/07/2020 17:08

Look around you, obesity is caused by food manufacturers and producers forcing their products on us at every opportunity and manipulating those products to appeal to our instinctive urge for calorie dense food. Urban planning, transport etc also plays a role in this

How does transport, let alone town planning, play a role in food manufacturers forcing food on us?

tootiredtobeinspired · 27/07/2020 17:19

@Iamthewombat I meant in the obesity epidemic. Poor layout of towns and cities make it difficult for people to walk or cycle.
Councils allow large numbers of fried chicken shops (for example) to cluster in some areas etc.

Ormally · 27/07/2020 17:22

@Graphista I think that is all very well put. Definitely the commute time - routine (with DCs) - exercise relationship has been the thing that has made the biggest difference to my weight (not in a good way), and probably also the medical diagnosis limbo in your 7th point.

I've also found the ease of buying and dealing with, e.g., a sandwich and takeaway coffee when working and being quite desk bound sadly beats bringing (e.g.) soup or a decent meal from home, when you also have to work out how to heat it and clean up what it came in so it doesn't make a mess of your bag either going or returning. (I am prepared to concede that this is just me and that I'm incurably messy, but do find that part of it puts me off eventually even when I want to kick the convenience food habit).

MitziK · 27/07/2020 17:29

[quote SimonJT]@MitziK Where do you live? Gyms are much cheaper here and I live in Zone 1. I pay the top level so it includes use during all opening hours, swimming pools and no additional cost for classes for £48 per month.[/quote]
Outer London, @SimonJT. It's stupid bloody money - I suppose it's because there just aren't as many competing facilities in the area as there are in zone 1.

If I worked in Zone 1, I'd be PMing you to ask which one you use, as that's less than the amount the 'council' one charges for Disabled people to have an off peak membership.

To qualify my bitching slightly, I am referring specifically to gyms with pools, as it's something I absolutely need due to the bastarding joints and tendons, so there are a few 'grittier' gyms for less. But they aren't suitable for my medical conditions. And if I see one more advert on YT with a really macho man barking 'If you're a FEMALE from THIS BOROUGH, we will change your life' when I know it's a basement in a building that's falling apart, I might have to try my hand at the 10m laptop hurling event.

Norabird · 27/07/2020 17:29

@slipperywhensparticus

I found i put on more weight working full time even though i was living off salads I didn't have the time to exercise i was up dressed ready kids in childcare off to work (too far away to walk) work all day out of work back to childminder grab kids tea bed prep for the next day! I was exhausted and the pounds went on!
Time is the killer for me too, and exhaustion. It's a vicious cycle though. The less I exercise and the fatter I get, the more tired I get and the less inclined to do exercise and put effort into what I'm eating. I spend my normal life going from work to running around after children to trying to keep on top of the housework to collapsing in an exhausted heap.

My weight has been a battle my entire life and every time I have managed through WW to lose weight I ultimately end up putting even more back on when the effort of sticking with it inevitably becomes unsustainable. I have PCOS so the effort is more than it would be for someone without it. With the irony being that losing weight is the one thing that really helps!

One thing that would really help would be not being judged for it. The more people judge the worse I feel about myself and the less able I feel to actually do something about it. The times in my life that I have managed to lose weight have been when I have had a really positive mindset. Not when I've been feeling low and hating myself.

Mothermorph · 27/07/2020 17:32

Do you honestly believe that human beings 2 or 3 generations ago were somehow capable of feats of willpower that current generations just somehow fail to achieve?
I think theres lots of different factors. 2-3 generations ago far fewer women worked full time. There was less car usage, people shopped daily etc at individual shops and were at home to prepare food.
Today while it might be more eco and healthier to shop daily, get fruit/veg from a market, meat from the butchers, bread from the bakers etc it is really time consuming around working full time, not always accessible (ie most towns dont have a market every day or a butcher, fishmonger greengrocer etc) and sometimes more expensive.
Supermarkets have made it easier to shop quickly and conveniently, and sometimes more cheaply.
Also in previous years there was less snacking or eating on the go. Before covid I wouldn't think twice about having a bag of crisps on the train, on the way home from work if I was peckish, but a lot of older people would never consider it.

I guess so many more outlets sell food as well. Boots is traditionally a chemist but you can get all manner of snacks and food there, similarly whsmiths sells outrageously overpriced-- food when it isnt really a food shop. Ditto the local post office etc.

Kpo58 · 27/07/2020 17:35

How does transport, let alone town planning, play a role in food manufacturers forcing food on us?

Well if you live 10 mins from a newsagents (that does some frozen food) or 4 miles from the nearest supermarket, can't drive and the bus fare there and back costs £8 per person (if it turns up) and you only have £20 for the week, well you won't easily be buying cheap healthy fruit and vegetables will you?

SusieOwl4 · 27/07/2020 17:35

The announcement did say they wanted the supermarkets to do more deals on healthy food that was part of the plan .

So if they are making more profit on unhealthy food ( as they can’t actually stop people buying it contrary to popular opinion) then they can cut their margins on other food .

SusieOwl4 · 27/07/2020 17:37

@Mothermorph

I agree about the snacking . My older relatives also hated people eating in the street , they considered it bad manners . Even fish and chips at the seaside😀

Norabird · 27/07/2020 17:39

@DoubleTweenQueen

Dried beans and pulses are cheap and highly nutritious. Whole grains/rice. Frozen veg very good too. Eat less meat and cheaper cuts. Chicken legs instead of breast. Eat less processed bread & cake/ biscuits. More porridge with milk and a bit of sugar/ honey/jam for breakfast. The cheapest processed food is cheap for a reason. Not worth buying.
Children that would eat meals made of beans, pulses and frozen veg with brown rice are rare indeed (tbh it doesn't really appeal to me either). I know such children exist but I watch much less challenging food than that being rejected by huge numbers of children in the school dinner hall on a daily basis.
SchrodingersImmigrant · 27/07/2020 17:40

@MitziK

I've just looked up the cost of monthly membership at the 'council' gym and pool. To fit in with work, I have to use peak times - and it isn't open early enough for me to go before work (as I start just after 7am).

£93

Ninety three pounds.

Ninety fucking three pounds. Plus £40 joining fee, plus £10 card fee, plus £25 induction session. And is so 'cheap' because you're only locked into a year's contract.

And the bastarding pool is still shut for that.

The poshest gym in town is £63 and has a pool that is open (for half an hour each person). Plus, some of their classes are actually running.

I'm not able to go for a run or cycle because I've got automimmune disease/arthritis/EDS and need the safety of using purpose built equipment for joint stabilisation and the support of water for aerobic exercise. Having somebody who is qualified around also helps me not get injured, as well, something I do with alarming regularity from such things as walking.

I record everything I eat and drink. I do not eat shit or have massive portions.

If somebody tells me to ride a bike, I will tell them to fuck right off. But give me cheap gym membership, I'm there.

Bloody hell. Ours is £30 for an adult. All council gyms,pools, court hire possible, classes etc.
SchrodingersImmigrant · 27/07/2020 17:42

Children that would eat meals made of beans, pulses and frozen veg with brown rice are rare indeed (tbh it doesn't really appeal to me either). I know such children exist but I watch much less challenging food than that being rejected by huge numbers of children in the school dinner hall on a daily basis.

They exist abroad. We never had kids menu. Restaurants offer half portion so we eat what adults did, no nuggets and chips. I actually don't know anyone still now in there who feeds that to their kids regularly.

Norabird · 27/07/2020 17:43

I would also introduce daily PE lessons

Certainly in primary school, I could really get behind this. The vast majority of children don't do nearly enough exercise.

Titsywoo · 27/07/2020 17:44

I think it would be great to somehow encourage people growing their own fruit and veg more. It's great for the environment too. I have an allotment but during lockdown it's been harder to get there so made a 5 veg beds in our lawn instead. It doesn't really cost anything just a bit of manual labour then some seeds. I appreciate many people don't have gardens and maybe community gardens would be a possibility too? I know this wouldn't keep everyone in veg all year around but it's exercise, time in the fresh air, seeing where food comes from, seasonal and much cheaper. Gardening is so good for mental health as well.

Norabird · 27/07/2020 17:47

@Mistlewoeandwhine

George Orwell has already covered all this in The Road to Wigan Pier. All I’ll say (as a fatty myself), if you want people to be both mentally and physically healthy, first give them good lives. Things which would make an actual difference: well paid jobs, lower actual working hours, good mental health support, safe communities...These are the things which need to be fixed first.
Absolutely this!
Staplemaple · 27/07/2020 17:49

Children that would eat meals made of beans, pulses and frozen veg with brown rice are rare indeed (tbh it doesn't really appeal to me either). I know such children exist but I watch much less challenging food than that being rejected by huge numbers of children in the school dinner hall on a daily basis.

It depends what it is served with and seasoned with. Lentils on the side of a plate are grim, a lentil Ragu with the veg blitzed in as well with pasta is really tasty.

florascotia2 · 27/07/2020 17:51

tootired You are quite right that the junk food industry uses clever marketing strategies, but people 2 or 3 generations ago honestly DID have a different attitude towards food. I don't think that will power was the main issue, however.

  1. Habit and custom were extremely important (and society was probably more conventional then). People generally did not snack, or take food to (eg) the cinema etc , and it was seen as uncouth to eat on public transport or in the street, except pehaps for ice-cream at the seaside.

  2. Deprivation of food was also used as a punishment. Children were denied (eg) pudding for bad behaviour or sent to bed with no supper. Today, we would not approve, of course. But my point is that the experience of long gaps between meals and even outright hunger was quite a common one. Some children did try to be fussy, but the attitude was much more likely to be 'eat up or go hungry - there is no alternative'. I'm not saying that was good, but it was a common point of view.

  3. Availability was also a major factor, both for supply and demand:

  • In the 1950s and 60s many people could remember World War II rationing, and the very limited - but adequate - range of foodstuffs available then. They honestly were grateful for whatever was around. They did not expect heaped plates or anything fancy. Wasting food was abhorrent, even sinful. I remember older relatives telling me this, very clearly.

  • As I said in an earlier post, fast food was simply not available three generations ago - the first UK burger chains and chicken fryers and pizza places did not open until the 1960 and 1970s. The number of UK coffee shops increased 800 per cent in the 1990s. Shops did not stock shelves full of crisps and snacks until the 1960s; UK crisp consumption doubled in that decade. Around the same time, supermarkets' cheap wine and beer made alcohol much more widely available. Consumption of alcohol at home skyrocketed. Sweet fizzy drink consumption also increased rapidly around that time. In the 1950s, it was most unusual.

The result of all the above was that a lot of the food 'temptation' that people have to cope with today simply was not there two or three generations ago.

  1. There was not so much food available in peoples' homes:
  • Most ordinary houses did not have fridges until around 1960. Freezers and microwaves came much, much later. There was just not the opportunity to open a fridge door and graze on snacks, or to put an instant meal in the microwave.
  • Shopping habits were different, too. Supermarkets were not widespread until the 1970s. Small local shops closed at 5.30 pm, on the whole. Garages etc did not sell junk snacks day and night. If there was no food in the house - or the butter had gone rancid or the milk had gone sour (no fridge etc) - people simply had to wait until the shops opened again.
  1. Food was proportionately much more expensive for most ordinary people. It was valued and not wasted. Budgeting and portion control was an economic necessity. There was very, very little spare money to pay for extras. Here are some figures: " In the 1950s we spent a third of our income on food shopping, but in 1974 this had gone down to 24%. By 2016 food shopping accounted for just 10.5% of our income." source: www.which.co.uk/news/2019/11/heres-how-our-food-prices-compare-to-30-years-ago-and-you-might-be-surprised/