To not know whether to tell my mother gran's wishes?

[Lizzie523]

My gran is in the final stages of dementia and unlikely to live to the end of the year. A year or so before her diagnosis she told me she didnt want her nephew attending her funeral when the time came. She said she believed he gave my mother (his cousin) a date rape drug once when we visited. She says he had access to a lot of drugs due to his job as a chemist. We used to stay with him some summers and I was honestly surprised to hear this given her previously positive relationship with him. In hindsight I have wondered if it was due to the dementia. But she was adamant he should not attend the funeral (without telling my uncle and mother who are now her actual powers of attorney).

I haven't thought about this man in years until today, when my mum told me he had phoned her. She mentioned he had retired from his job a a chemist which confirms part of my gran's story.

She was adamant about him not attending the funeral but when the time comes what can I do? My mother doesnt seem to hold any ill will towards him.

Dementia is a strange one op, and it certainly sounds like your gran was suffering. I work closely with dementia and they often add things to the truth...

Ie.

True = relative was a chemist.
Dementia = then he did something crazy tying in with the truth - such as the date rape story.

Since your gran then went on to get the Dementia diagnosis, its likely that the dementia had already started out, it starts out as a little 'mind worm'

By the time the diagnosis has come, the person has likely beeb suffering with it for a while, just getting worse and worse.

In this situation I would tell your DM, and go about it as " I have to tell you something gran said some time before the diagnosis, obviously i don't know the truth of any of it, but thought to make you aware of what she said"

My dad was also making stuff up before he was actually diagnosed with dementia.

There would usually be a kernel of truth but it would be an exaggerated or extreme story on the whole.

Sometimes he would relate something that he had read or seen on tv as having happened to himself or someone he knew.

When was it supposed to have happened & has your mum ever said anything?

How was she after the phone call?

If it's made up, your DM will not mind you telling her - she's well aware of the dementia diagnosis by now! And she will likely be glad to put your mind at rest.
If it's true, she might be glad to have a reason to swerve him.
If you never mention it, it will eat away at you for ever.

I have actually heard the story about daughters flashing and leading men on quite a few times, I think it is a bit of a known delusion in dementia, a bit like being spied on and having gas piped through the walls.
It is such a sad disease. I would mention it to your Mum, if nothing else, your uncle and your mum deserve the chance to clear their names.

I don't think the date rape drug makes you act all crazy and take your clothes off in front of people. I believe it works by rendering you basically senseless, and when you come around you have absolutely no memory of what happened.

That's how the drug works, so for this reason and for other reasons already pointed out, I would tend not to believe the story was "true" (in the impartial sense) and would not mention any of it to anyone IRL - and definitely not your mother.

@Aquamarine1029

Op, how could your grandmother possibly know he gave your mother a date rape drug? You said she dementia and this sounds like a fanciful rambling from someone who's faculties are failing her.

My MIL's father-in-law accused her of stealing his watches, plates, socks, etc, and forbade her from attending his funeral. Of course she never stole anything, and it was his dementia talking.

This. I’d take it with a pinch of salt. Even if it were true - which seems highly unlikely if your mum’s cool with him - it’s not your business or your gran’s. Just forget it.

So your gm believes your mother was given a date rape drug (and raped as a result?) but doesn't know about it? That seems pretty unlikely doesn't it? How would your gm know this? I'd just forget she ever said anything. What good could come from trying to convince your mother she was drugged and/or raped many years ago?

The fact that he actually is a chemist doesn't really confirm the story, more likely it gave her the idea.

If your gran didn't have dementia it would be different. But she does. People with dementia imagine all sorts of things. It's fairly common. Don't say anything.

it really does sound like a dementia 'story', particularly if your mum appears to bear the man in question no ill-will. Honestly, it can be very hard to tell the fact from the fiction because their reality is so strongly held. I once had a 3am conversation with my mother who was screaming her head off that the house had burnt to the ground, the police had been, she'd burnt her whole body and spent days in hospital. She was genuinely terrified and upset that I hadn't been to see her. I only knew it was one of her hallucinations because I'd left her not 5 hours before, she was talking to me from inside the house, sat in the front room on the phone which just wouldn't have been possible if the house had burnt to the ground. But listening to her she was telling me the absolute truth because in her head it was a truth. No amount of logic, however, can placate someone with dementia, they see what they see.

I would keep this to myself unless there is anything at all which suggests to you that there is an issue between mum and this man.

I’d let sleeping dogs lie. There is nothing to be achieved by telling now except a big drama, which as the messenger, could easily com back to bite you.

I would say nothing as I really doubt it happened and what would be the point in starting an argument now .

I wouldn't say anything.

My Gran started making stories up a couple of years before her dementia diagnosis and I can guarantee they were made up.

I personally wouldn't say anything.

I would say to your mum >>
Grandma says Uncle was a bit dodgy in the past, I think its just the dementia talking, what do you think? Then see if she tells you anything.

Aside from the fact it's unlikely to be true if your mother associates freely with the guy and seems to have no reservations about him, what good would it do anyone to try to stop the nephew attending the funeral?

If it were a real incident, it's your mother's experience to decide how to respond to, not your gran's, or yours, or anyone else's.

Dementia causes people to make up stories like this, often with many details. My mother had it, and in the early stages she often told me lurid stories about family members - the stories were often sexual and very explicit . I knew they were false stories because Mum couldn't have possibly known about the things she was telling me. I certainly tell the people involved about her tales. And I don't think you should tell your mother what your gran said - she'd be horrified and upset , I'm sure. Let it go - when the funeral happens it doesn't matter who is there , your gran won't know and it won't hurt anyone .

Funerals are for the living, not the dead, unless you are deeply religious, I guess.

I wouldn’t make a big hoo ha with family members based on the comments from an old lady suffering with dementia. They may be true or not but you have no way of checking so smile and nod but don’t mention it to anyone else.

My granny was away with the fairies when she lived with us when I was a teenager and the detailed stories she wove were outrageous sometimes, but 99% made up.

I would definitely have to mention this to my mother.

GM gave this man POA when she was compos mentis - she trusted him then, while she was still in her right mind. If the accusations against him didn't arise until after that, then they are almost certainly the result of dementia.Presumably he didn't drug your mother within the last few years?
It's up to you whether to tell your mother, on the basis that honesty is the best policy, or whether to decide not to upset her and keep it to yourself. There is a teeny chance that it is true, and that you will have then denied your Mum an opportunity to bring this into the open. I think on balance I would tell Mum, and she will probably say that it never happened.Honesty is probably best.

My aunt believed there were people partying in her house at night. She would also be visited by my (dead) grandmother, her (dead) husband, and she once rang the police to complain about the noisy circus in the garden.

Date rape drugs are usually sedatives, muscle relaxants etc.

It doesn’t sound very likely.

What point would it serve to tell your mother. Your gran will have. O idea who is at her funeral and it would no doubt upset your mother. Unless you want to cause trouble I can’t see why you would tell her. You can’t believe a word someone with dementia says. My mother has vascular dementia following a brain haemorrhage and she’s always coming out with all kinds of crap.

*TatianaBis

she once rang the police to complain about the noisy circus in the garden

This would be funny if it wasn't so horribly tragic. My husband's grandfather called the police accusing his neighbour of painting his house in the middle of the night. Obviously, that wasn't happening. He also accused a 92 year old female neighbour of stealing his car. He hadn't owned a car in over 10 years.

What the op's grandmother said simply didn't happen, and I fear repeating these delusions will only deeply upset the op's mum.

I don't think this is how date rape drugs work OP.
It seems more likely that this is part of your GM's illness rather than reality.
However asking family members who were meant to have been present at the incident may shed further light of what happened.

Tell your mum what your gran said. Then as poa she can decide. She will
Know if it’s true or not.

Paranoid beliefs are very common in dementia. My mum was convinced that her friend was stealing lose change out her purse when she came to visit.
Look at the facts;
on the one side; your cousin is indeed a chemist.
on the other; she had maintained a good relationship with him throughout her life, she never mentioned this to anyone at any point including her closest relationships, how would she have know this anyway? and she was suffering from dementia.
I really would not upset anyone in your family with this.