Mask shamed (disability), complain? (Some TMI)

[Maskwoes]

I've NCed for this thread as I expect the details I share will make the case highly identifiable. MNHQ can confirm I'm a member of some years.

I have several disabilities, physical and psychological. I am unable to wear a face mask because I have PTSD from sexual trauma as a young teen. I'm sorry for TMI but it's relevant to the case - I was raped and penetrated in my mouth too. Due to this nothing can cover my mouth, it's an instant panic attack.

I had to attend a hospital yesterday - minor injuries unit. I approached to book in and was instantly ordered to put on a mask, one was offered, to which I replied I was unable to do so due to a mental health condition. She fetched a nurse who asked why I was refusing to wear one, and that if I did not then I would be removed from the unit. This area is very open and very public, with other patients being seen at the side of me.

I was becoming extremely anxious at this point and explained that I have PTSD. They wanted details. I was essentially railroaded into detailing what happened as a teen. I was told to wait and then taken into a room with a doctor and another nurse. I again had to explain in detail my PTSD. I was then offered a visor type mask which I found very claustrophobic and in all honesty unbearable.

I was then triaged, assessed and treated. In total I explained everything three times, had an hour-long major panic attack in the car afterwards and have been very on edge, upset, and on the edge of more panic attacks. I had two more overnight and haven't slept, am very upset.

I'm extremely pissed off in truth and am wondering whether I should complain, through which channels, how far to push and what the outcome would likely be.

I'm posting this in AIBU as I want the brutally honest views!

Thank you for reading.

Refusal to care is a very hard line to take. I'm not sure that's the right route. Surely there can be steps in between like visor, NHS staff in full protective PPE, allowing chaperones etc.

I work in education and come into contact with all kinds of people. Students that have committed crimes, parents with awful backgrounds. I have to engage with all of them. However if I wasn't physically safe I could (and would) call for help/police.

Op has implied several times that his needs outweigh the needs of others

Where?

He said he is exempt from wearing a mask, which he is.

He said he asked to explain why in a private setting and was refused.

He was wearing a lanyard clearly to display his exemption.

HE. IS. EXEMPT. AS. PER. THE. OFFICIAL. GUIDANCE.

That is not the same as saying 'my needs top everyone elses' and it makes not a jot of difference if you think it does. He was following the official legislation and no one has a right to challenge that other than the specific people listed in the guidance (police officers etc ..) and certainly not in the way it was done here, embarrassingly and in front of others.

As I say, if you are so concerned about the risk to HCPs or other patients, lobby for change in the guidance to accommodate separation of non mask wearers and them being treated in full PPE or whatever the answer is. But NONE of that is the OPs individual responsibility, it is the hospitals and the government's to account for the people they will obviously encounter who are unable to wear a face covering. It was obvious that at some point the hospitals are going to come into contact with someone who is medically exempt, why have they not put any procedures in place for that? Why is it down to the OP who is actually following the correct legislation? And why does that make him 'something special'?

Are you someone who thinks just because you can get on with it and wear a mask that everyone else can? Do you think medical exemptions are a load of rubbish and everyone who fits the category should just get over it and put a mask on because they 'aren't special'??

I feel it's perhaps important to highlight that at the peak of this people didn't have to wear face masks in hospitals, so what did they do then to protect staff? Why can't they do that now for those who cannot wear masks? Some disgusting posts on here, some should be ashamed.

Is it not the same as people being medically exempt from certain vaccinations? Should they just get them anyway in case they infect someone with something because you know 'they aren't special' and their needs shouldn't top everyone else's?

I understand your ptsd, but a lot of people will have ptsd from recovering from Covid-19 & not wearing a face covering in a hospital is unacceptable. The nhs staff need as much protection as possible. I wouldn’t complain.

But you don't understand PTSD if you think it's possible to just get on with it and wear one, it's not that simple for some people. A medical setting should be aware that some are exempt, and put a procedure in place to protect staff but allow the patient some dignity.

@Happymum12345

I understand your ptsd, but a lot of people will have ptsd from recovering from Covid-19 & not wearing a face covering in a hospital is unacceptable. The nhs staff need as much protection as possible. I wouldn’t complain.

The OP can't wear a mask!! They can't wear one. They are exempt from doing so. It is not unacceptable, it is perfectly within the law.

What is your answer here? OP should be refused medical care because through no fault of his own, he is unable to wear a mask?

Why is the onus not on the hospitals and the government to provide adequate measures to accommodate for people who are medically exempt?

We can't just not treat anyone who falls under this category?

@MmmmmOk not at all denying that medical exemption is real. Of course it is. But I think people need to also realize that their not wearing a mask DOES put people at risk that you come into contact with; that is just how it is.

I am working hard at my own workplace to make it safe for staff to serve non mask wearing customers. As many of them don’t wear them, don’t stick to the ‘footprints’ on the floor for social distancing, refusing to pay contactless etc. they may have their reasons and that’s fine, but when you have one of your 17 year old staff in tears because a grown man shouted in her face when she asked him to stand on the allocated spot and use hand sanitizer before she served him, things have to change somehow. Unfortunately these arseholes types are making those who are exempt medically more at risk of being judged.

Thanks for the reports about this thread.

We have been through and removed any posts that we felt broke our Talk Guidelines. Many of the deletions were for disablist posts and we absolutely do not tolerate these kinds of posts on the boards.

Mumsnet exists to make parent's lives easier and if there's one thing we could all do with, especially right now, it's some understanding and moral support.

@Cheeseislife2020 obviously any abuse towards staff is wrong (but sadly nothing new), but do you not think a medical setting should have something in place to safely accommodate those who medically cannot wear a mask? They must be aware of their existence, and are choosing to not bother trying to put anything into place. A bit different from a shop where what can be done is limited.

@Staplemaple

I feel it's perhaps important to highlight that at the peak of this people didn't have to wear face masks in hospitals, so what did they do then to protect staff? Why can't they do that now for those who cannot wear masks? Some disgusting posts on here, some should be ashamed.

Staff were in full PPE and admission even into A and E was controlled and probably much less, for non Covid issues, than now. I can see why you can't have non mask wearers sitting in a waiting room for four plus hours tbh. My mum went to A and E following a fall a couple of weeks ago and was there for six hours - she said the waiting room was full. Amongst those are going to be people vulnerable not Covid and they also deserve protection so they must have to separate non mask wearers somehow and then protect the staff treating them with full PPE.

Unfortunately these arseholes types are making those who are exempt medically more at risk of being judged

Yes, by you it seems.

OP didn't do anything like the example in your post just now though did he? He followed the guidance properly and appropriately.

But I think people need to also realize that their not wearing a mask DOES put people at risk that you come into contact with; that is just how it is

I agree. But again, what is the answer here? OP sits at home with a broken limb unable to access medical care? He can't MAKE the hospital carry out whatever procedures they need to put in place to accommodate medically exempt people. That is down to them is it not? And the government to ensure their guidance covers things like this?

Were we just expecting exempt people never to need access to medical care or something? This should have been thought about and accommodated properly, but that is not OPs fault.

Sensible reaction to this by hospital:

• The exempt person is asked to wait alone or outside until ready to be seen when they are called in and placed in a room.
• Staff wear additional PPE when seeing exempt person (maybe similar to that worn by ITU staff to protect them from actual covid patients who obviously can't wear masks)
• For planned attendances eg, outpatients, exempt person is asked to take a covid test 2/3 days prior to attendance. (obviously not relevant for OP)
• more vulnerable staff do not attend the exempt person for their own protection (and it's explained to the exempt person that this policy is in place and they may therefore have a slightly longer wait)

Complain. It sounds like they handled the situation extremely unprofessionally. You are within your rights not to have to wear one and you shouldn’t be asked more than once.

@Staplemaple yes but it would have to be some sort of allocated room per each non mask wearing individual to be placed in, plus any staff entering in full ‘Chernobyl style’ PPE. I can see this in itself illiciting complaints. Isolated on own in room without anyone with them, full PPE potentially traumatizing to those with certain conditions etc .

@DancingInDespair I think those sound really sensible. I think two negative tests before planned treatment would be a good idea - in America this is the norm anyway. All inpatients are screened several times before their planned treatment

However if I wasn't physically safe I could (and would) call for help/police.

We did mostly home visits on our own, some in flats with rubbish mobile reception...I definitely had a few lucky escapes. Calling the police wasn't always an option. Colleague was stabbed with a used needle and another had to be tested for TB in the same month.

I wouldn’t complain.

Ultimately the OP has highlighted an issue and that definitely needs raising even if it's done as feedback including the positives about the care he received. The NHS have a really poor record when it comes to certain areas imo (see the thread about consent and anything involving child birth as examples) and why should it be ignored for the next person to be treated equally badly.

@Chinnyreckon123 await your deletion message lol. It’s fine to say what you want to other SA victims but op must not be disagreed with

The OPs gender has absolutely nothing to do with my replies. I can't claim to be aware of the OP on other threads but on this particular subject I think he is correct that he has been treated wrongly ant that some posters replies have been terrible and very victim blaming.

There was a thread on here the other day from a woman regarding a similar thing and the responses were also supportive and horrid in equal measure.

And as usual, we have unconsciously conditioned women leaping to his fucking aid. Many of whom who have suffered themselves

To be fair I'm just commenting on the situation in a hypothetical sense rather in relation to OP specifically. It's an interesting debate, do hospitals just say no mask no treatment, despite knowing that some people cannot safely wear one; or do they ensure there is some sort of protocol which keeps both the staff safe yet the patient able to access care? I'm sure some hospitals have this already.

@Staplemaple

And as usual, we have unconsciously conditioned women leaping to his fucking aid. Many of whom who have suffered themselves

To be fair I'm just commenting on the situation in a hypothetical sense rather in relation to OP specifically. It's an interesting debate, do hospitals just say no mask no treatment, despite knowing that some people cannot safely wear one; or do they ensure there is some sort of protocol which keeps both the staff safe yet the patient able to access care? I'm sure some hospitals have this already.

Precisely. This was a situation that was always going to present itself at some point. Procedures should be in place and should have been considered before now.

[quote ILikeGinAndCake]@NikeDeLaSwoosh I should have said everyone needs to wear a mask unless they have a medical or mental health condition... unfortunately people aren’t psychic and can’t tell just by looking at you (generally) if you are just not wearing one because you don’t like it or if you have a genuine reason. Of course you are going to be challenged in a medical environment.[/quote]
It is unlawful to challenge anyone who isn't wearing a face covering, in any circumstances unless you are a police officer (or a couple of other categories of person)

No matter what you would prefer the law to say, it says what it says.

I strongly suggest you read it before you carry on posting.

Obviously we must immediately disagree with anything a man says simply because he's a man otherwise we are just unconsciously conditioned women.

How about I just think OP is right?

And as usual, we have unconsciously conditioned women leaping to his fucking aid. Many of whom who have suffered themselves

I was already half way through the thread and already formed my opinion when the fact that OP was male was mentioned. It didn't alter or affect my opinion/response in any way.

Tbh I was still unsure when I first posted which is why I used them/they and OP. I responded to the situation not to the the sex of OP.