To worry that my sister is engulfing her child

[whatdoidowiththisthen]

I've been doing a bit of reading on this and the best description I can come up with of how my sister is with her son is engulfing. I think that might be a psychology term and I'd actually really appreciate the perspective of child professionals on this..

So.. my dear sister is in a failing marriage with her DH. He refuses couple counselling and generally gaslights and pins the blame on her for everything that doesn't work in their marriage.

When she suggested they divorce he told her he would rip her to shreds in court because she has a history of MH issues and he has a lot of money. Threatened to remove her DD (7) from her care by painting her as mad.

Anyway she has resolved to stay and our relationship is now very brittle because I know coercive control when I see it but I am not allowed to name it.

She loves her DD beyond words but I am worried that there is a serious amount of weirdness going on that will screw up my niece.

For eg:

D niece is not allowed to do anything alone without my sister micro managing every element of this . At first I thought me noticing this was just guilt at the fact I have 3 dc and tbh quite honestly am very happy to let them entertain themselves but d sis is getting up every morning at 5 am as that is when d niece wakes.

When I suggested d sister might want to leave d niece to her own devices she said her own anxiety would not allow d niece to go and have fun without her.

And that's how it is really... d niece is now allowed to play in the garden without d sis as d sis has to be playmate to her.

Every element of d nieces life is planned and organised, not a moment of chill out time. D sis gets cross at her husband for e.g reading a book while 'minding' D niece but tbh although I can't stand the guy I can see nothing at all wrong with him chilling out with a book in the same room instead of flat on the floor playing Lego intensely and quite manically the way my sister does.

I know this is Aibu and I'll probably be marmalised but I don't need to know what others think.

Am I just a shit, lazy mother of three who is doing it all wrong or is there something weird going on here.

Just realise I called my DN son in first line, I was trying to disguise the facts a bit but I think the rest of the post makes it clear it's a daughter. Sorry

YANBU and this come back and bite her on the arse big time when her dd is unable to function without mummy holding her hand, or the dd decides that she’s going to rebel big time and escape ASAP. This ‘engulfing’ behaviour is not going to help her case if she does proceed with a divorce.

Thank you Shizzle.

It is so difficult because I see him 100 per cent as controlling her. But also some of the things he says about how she is with her son I can agree.

DN is lovely and I love her to bits. I have no experience of only children as my first and second born are DTs so I really don't feel I can comment...but at a birthday party for my youngest I heard another DC (age four!) say to their mother that DN 'isn't like other children but like a little old man' and their mother hushed them up quick.

It's like everyone can see it but no one says it.

Gosh I've started writing this and I don't think this is a thread about parenting but a thread about D sis and her mental state. I feel so sad :(

God I'm doing it again. D sis has a son. I'm being crap at trying to obsfuscate that I was just so worried this thread might be seen and picked up. I think I'll have to ask for a deletion.

Well it does sound a bit too much but may be when the child starts school there will be some separation between them at least.

It's the threats from her husband that are driving this. His abuse - I'll bet that if DN were allowed to play alone, he'd note it as proof of her neglecting their safety/disinterest/insanity.

Maybe she's trying to play a long game, where, when it comes to it, the DN will not go for the father's lies and promises - or she's just too terrified to do anything else but be there every second because he's already making comments such as 'well, that's another one for the court, then'.

Spinnaker thanks DN is 7 so already been to school, though not in lockdown obvs. If anything that separation seemed to activate the behaviour more.

Mitz yes I'm worried that it's all being driven by the coercive control.

@MitziK

It's the threats from her husband that are driving this. His abuse - I'll bet that if DN were allowed to play alone, he'd note it as proof of her neglecting their safety/disinterest/insanity.

Maybe she's trying to play a long game, where, when it comes to it, the DN will not go for the father's lies and promises - or she's just too terrified to do anything else but be there every second because he's already making comments such as 'well, that's another one for the court, then'.

This^^.

I don't think this is poor parenting. It is an abused wife. If I was married to an abusive partner and didn't feel I could leave, I might do the same thing and not want dcs out of my sight .

No idea what you can do about it op .

Point sis at "helicopter parenting" and explain its not in the child's own interest.

No matter how much money her horrible husband has, he can;t buy a fake medical history, pin it onto SIS and expect a court to believe him.

I think you need to help her and your DN to leave. Support them. She is definitely being abused.

I also think it’s a reaction to the abuse. Sounds like she’s desperately trying to prove she’s a ‘good mum’. I bet you anything her husband tells her she’s a shit one. It’s all coming from a place of fear.

I would be far more concerned that the child is growing up in the middle of an abusive relationship between her parents. The fact that she is being played with too much and not having to entertain herself should be the least of your worries about her.

I think 7 is still young and an only dc possibly does need more planned entertainment or they’d drive a parent nuts constantly wanting you to play. It’s probably quite different to us with twins - I’m definitely in the lazy parent/leave them to entertain themselves type but I do think only dc have different needs. The abuse won’t help things obviously but I’d keep an eye and only get really concerned if she’s still like it through year 6.

Thank you all I really do appreciate perspectives.

I have supported and supported from afar. After several years of listening I told her that I felt her DH was controlling her and that he bullies her.

She came back with, frankly, a load of weird shit about how she thought she had a similar marriage to mine. This, apparently being based on the fact that her DH is a workaholic and mine is social phobic (autistic) actually so we both have a lot of freedom to go away on weekends together without the DHs.

I just can't be drawn into the gaslighting of it all. I've tried to help her and I feel she just tries to drag me down into it. How do I not collude?

I think there are a few different things going on and I don't think it's that big a cause for concern. In fact, I think you might be directing your concern over her relationship towards their DC because you feel on firmer ground intervening on that basis and you feel it may prompt your DSIS to act. Fwiw if you mention this to your DSIS or anyone else, it's likely that all you'll do is make your DSIS feel that her DH is right and she's a shit parent.
Your DSIS is probably compensating for the fact their DC is an only and is growing up in a house that is often unhappy and insecure. She's constantly love bombing. Comparing how she treats her DC with how you treat 3 growing up in a happy home, is like comparing apples with oranges. Her DC's needs are different.

Your poor sister. She’s in an abusive marriage and her husband threatened to take her child away when she suggested divorce. Her relationship with you is brittle and it sounds like she’s pouring everything into her child. I agree it doesn’t sound entirely healthy, but I’d say there are parents in ‘normal’ situations that are similar. Hopefully if your nephew gets back to school soon that will help but he may need more support more generally, given his home life...
I’d focus less on your sister engulfing him and more about how you can best support her. If she can find the strength to leave hopefully the relationship with her son will change.

I agree that the marriage is the problem but I am not permitted to speak about that.

I have supported her for years, I don't know where else to go with it. I feel that I'm constantly being invited to collude with the idea that they are a happy family, an 'elite' family in fact as she sees them as high achievers and I'm basically the pleb with too many kids and and ASD husband.

I should have posted in relationships because I know my own feelings about myself and her being the golden child when we grew up are getting in the way.

Well she’s playing right into her husband’s hands because although she has said she will stay, he will decide to leave her one day (probably as soon as he finds someone new) and he will use this as proof of her being unsuitable as a primary carer for their DD.

I wonder too if because your sister has no control over her own life due to her husband's behaviour, she's trying to find something she can control and she's chosen her DC (I've got lost as to whether it's a boy or girl ) as the vehicle for that. To be denied any sort of say in your life, and to be threatened as she is would make anyone feel that they were losing their marbles. This may be her way of feeling that she isn't completely at the mercy of others.

It's also common for mothers in abusive relationships to overcompensate because their husbands can be distant from the DC.
It's good that you've recognised that your childhood issues are impacting here.

@AnneOfQueenSables

It's also common for mothers in abusive relationships to overcompensate because their husbands can be distant from the DC. It's good that you've recognised that your childhood issues are impacting here.

Ok that's really helpful thank you (as are all comments).

She talks about the distance a lot and how he 'show parents' with an audience then drops them both like a hot brick when no one is watching. That is her description and not mine as obviously I don't see the behind closed doors stuff.

I think the term is enmeshment, but perhaps at the moment the child just feels really really secure, ie, mum is ALWAYS THERE.

A marriage breakdown is hard to navigate and the seas are choppy for a while. I hope your sister ends the relationship. He sounds like a street angel and a house devil.

@AnneOfQueenSables

It's also common for mothers in abusive relationships to overcompensate because their husbands can be distant from the DC. It's good that you've recognised that your childhood issues are impacting here.

I don't know if it's common. It's 'a' response but there are lots of mothers who in this situation who cannot cope well with emotional needs of their children. I fell in to this category, I had to MAKE myself mother. It wasn't easy. Over compensating in terms of looking for support or companionship from tiny children didn't occur to me. I felt like the responsibilities of caring and supporting them were very challenging. I managed it but I could have done better. I certainly wasn't enmeshing them.

She really needs to get away from this situation. My dh’s cousin (early 40’s now) was brought up by a smothering mother and an abusive / distant father. Mum wanted him to be stunted. He ended up getting no qualifications, smoking lots of weed, unable to hold a job down. Other stuff must have happened as he went to prison for beating his father up. This finally made the parents divorce.

He pressured his mother (who had power of attorney) to bleed his grandmother dry and then bled his mother dry - proceeds of the sale of the marital home.

Every now and then he beats her up, apparently leaves bruises and marks round her throat, where he strangles her. She’s left one mentally and physically abusive man only for her ds to turn into another.

Obviously not everyone from such a household will turn into an abuser or marry an abuser but the deck is stacked against them. Your n&n will have mental scarring.

looking for support or companionship from tiny children didn't occur to me
You misunderstood what I meant. The mothers who do this are not looking for support from the DCs. They are showering support and attention on the DCs to compensate for the fact their father is an uninvolved parent. DCs who experience an uninvolved parenting style are more likely to have poor outcomes in lots of areas eg school, relationships, etc.