WWYD U.K. or Oz?

[ATaleOfTwoCovids]

Short: Looking for advice on whether to stay in Australia or return to the U.K.

YABU: Stay in Oz
YANBU: Return to UK

Long: We’re currently in Australia, we’ve been here a year and a half and we’re supposed to return to the U.K. at the end of the year. The local office form my company where I have been working this past year and a half have offered me a permanent position (and a raise!) if I stay on.

DH born and raised here. He and DC are all dual citizens U.K. and Oz. I’m British but visas are all fine and I’ll eventually be able to get citizenship so that’s not a major issue.

For context I am higher earner and would be getting paid more here than in U.K. I’m not worried about my position if we were to split, my job is permanent and I’m qualified in an area with more demand than supply here (for the time being anyway). My company is fairly Covid proof due to the industry. DH also working but he works freelance in a creative industry so can work from anywhere.

Pros of staying:
-Cost of living here significantly cheaper as well as more pay so we’d have a much better quality of life here in the short term at least.
-Our city is covid free so life is pretty much normal.
-DHs family are here and offer help with childcare (in the U.K. we’d need to hire a nanny or have DH cut back working significantly but the latter would put us under financial strain).
-Basically no winter here. Summer is unpleasant but with air con not really any worse than U.K.

Cons:
-Might have short term negative repercussions on our financial planning (but that might be fucked because of Covid anyway)
-My family are all in U.K.

• The situation with China is escalating quickly.
• It’s quite provincial in comparison to the U.K. in some ways (I don’t want to completely disparage the culture here, in many ways it’s much freer here and people have a better work ethic despite things overall being very chilled). We don’t mind but I worry it may be detrimental to the children long term.

To add to this if we were to return to the U.K. and the proverbial shit were to hit the fan we might struggle to get back to Australia. It’s not clear how long the borders will stay closed (I may be able to get an exemption but flights are thin on the ground regardless) and it’s not certain I’d be able to get my job back if I turned it down now. We need to decide in the next couple of weeks because of the job offer. Would you stick with the plan or just stay put where we are?

YABU: Stay in Oz
YANBU: Return to UK

I'd stay

But the scenario you haven't examined is

• marriage goes wrong, you want to go back at UK at that point, but he refuses permission for DC to leave. That essentially leaves you trapped there or having to leave the DC behind.

If they are older teens, that might not be a factor (their preference will be taken into account, and once 18 can do what they like) but they might want to stay. So are you happy to live there indefinitely, whatever life throws at you next?

@RoseAndRose I’m fine staying here. I always imagine myself going back to UK but I have siblings so parents will be fine and I’m happy here. I’ve made good friends, a close friend of mine from uni moved to the same state a few months ago so that’s been really nice too. I’m fine to stay here permanently although it wasn’t the original intention. This was all something I considered when we first moved here. I wouldn’t have come somewhere where my DH has such strong ties in the first place if I wouldn’t be willing to stay long term.

UK - no contest.

On the face of everything you've said, Aus seems to win on nearly all fronts... and that's before you take into account Brexit and everything else.

You're happy, well-paid, you've got a good lifestyle and family support, your children are settled, and you seem to have moved there with your eyes wide open about the potential for staying... I'd be taking the raise. You can always move back down the line if you want to, it's not a forever decision, but I wouldn't be choosing to move what seems a pretty happy life for the uncertainty of the UK right now!

You can have winter. Friends in Melbourne go to the Snowy Mountains almost every weekend in the ski season. They're called Snowy for a reason.

Having said that I know what you mean. When I ws travelling to the tropics and other areas warmer than the UK, I was surprised to find I missed the unpredictability of British weather and all its variances. This probably doesn't help with your decision though.

@EBearhug to be honest I don’t mind it. I like winter for the period between Halloween and Christmas but after that I’d just rather not. There is of course plenty of scope to ski trips like you mentioned but definitely not moving to Melbourne any time soon 😷

From your list of pro's and con's, Australia wins hands down.

I think you would be silly to move back now with covid and Brexit. The true damage of both has not really started to be felt yet, yes some have lost jobs already but nothing compared to the amounts coming. Where many many people will truly feel the effects of recession/depression and contracting economy.

Stay in Australia. The situation is much more stable in many ways, you say you're happy and settled, it's a no-brainer to me (even with ScoMo). I'm Australian and am trying to convince my British husband to move there or NZ. Britain is shit at the moment and I just want to get out.

@LadyFidgetAndHerHandbag ha! In all fairness ScoMo seems slightly better than BoJo.

Oh god Aus for sure. China situation escalating here too and you’ll have Brexit to wade through. I bet your QoL will be significantly better where you are than here.

how old are the DC?
I think your Oz list pros are more than the cons list howver may be missing the point on the China effect?

i've had friends stay and not stay in Oz - genreally those that came back were more into 'Culture' with a capital C and probably less outdoorsy indoor types.....those that have stayed have been more laid back and 'old-fashioned' thats not the right expression but they couldnt give a stuff about arts etc as they were about family living (not that you cant be into both but its a rough stereotype based on my friends....)

It would also depend where you are - I could live Mel/Syd - not BNE (too humid) dont know the other cities but not rural (couldn't live rural anywhere really)

maybe if you dig into the detail of why you would move back and what you could/would do to replicate that there... as looks like staying is your preferred option

Australia have done a much better job with covid too, I wouldn't come here if I lived elsewhere.

Only thing that puts me off Aus is the provincial nature, racism etc but you seem to find it okay enough. You can counteract the parts of the culture you don't like with your children by showing them different aspects etc and seeking out like minded people.

I lived abroad before and had to do the same with a culture I didn't like in many ways. But each culture does have good aspects and parts to embrace and parts to ignore.

No brainier - stay in Aus and enjoy life.

Brainer not brainier.

Stay. We moved back at the beginning of last year (though we are in SE London) and I am so tired of feeling anxious about life and the children. Things I have noticed which I find tiring: rubbish and pollution. Antisocial behaviour. The news is a constant cycle of bad things happening/about to possibly happen. My children don't get outside enough (and yes I take them out in all weather).
We are financially better off here and majority of our friends are here (my family are in Aus, but we were in a different city to them when we were there), which is why we moved back. In your position I would stay.

stay for now, nothing says you cant change your mind in a few years to return to uk.

I think having a good secure job is worth something currently and you seem on balance happier with what staying provides. Yes, there are downsides, but you'll get downsides wherever you live.

Stay in oz without a doubt

@averythinline it’s basically spiralling out of control into a Cold War over here. It’s not looking good and is making me jumpy I guess but I think it’s just paranoia that’s cons from being on high alert because of all this covid stuff.

Kids are primary aged so culture isn’t a big concern at the moment in all fairness (although that said we used to do a lot with them in terms of taking them to exhibitions, museums etc in London but we’d probably have to move somewhere in a commuting town anyway because of school fees and all that.

@flirtygirl we’re in a city so it’s not provincial enough for racism. DH is ethnic minority and says it wasn’t an issue growing up so I hope it would be fine for our children. It’s certainly more ethnically diverse at any rate so they won’t necessarily stand out the way that might do if we move back to the U.K. but outside of London.

I'd stay in your circumstances. You can always move in the future. I personally am not keen on the type of lifestyle in Australia, but I'm sun phobic (I burn easily) and not keen on swimming, sand, poisonous things ... but my friends love it. But if you like/can put up with these things then it's lovely

In all fairness ScoMo seems slightly better than BoJo.

Damning with faint praise there!

It seems like a total no brainer to me. You have a better standard of living and plenty of family support there. There are a million and one ways to teach your children culture that isn’t all old buildings and museum exhibitions. I’d stay.

Stay because you can always leave in a few years. But harder to do the opposite.

I’m Aus / British born in U.K. but grew up in Aus, back to London for twenty years. British parents and some siblings still there. I know both well

Consensus in the comment seems to be near absolute. Is there anyone voted UK that want to elaborate? @Crankley

How old are your children OP?
Why not come back for a holiday before starting new job and decide then?
With regards to China situation, we’re also clashing with them at the moment over several things.

How long til you could get an Aus passport?
I'd accept the job, and review once you have the second passport in your hands.