I'm an experienced highly qualified Early Years Educator and at work today at a creche I spent approx 3 hours deep cleaning as per current regs - I think this is neither sustainable nor desirable AIBU

[Germolenequeen]

AS ABOVE

I shouldn't imagine a n EY educator can work much below her pay grade but then a professional with a medical related masters degree may not know how the other half live, I guess.

Soaking specs in disinfectant is not the same as spending hours a day cleaning.

It is appalling and short sighted that the government is providing no extra funding for deep cleaning or extra cleaners/cleaning materials in schools. It's become a Hobson's choice between using staff who should be doing something else to do it, or having the same old grubby schools as before.

What should the OP not be doing then in order to clean? Because that’s the decision that needs to be made.

oh and I do think it's fine that the EY educators are expected to do the cleaning, but if realistically they need to have an extra 3 hours of work, it can't be instead of doing their actual job, so those extra hours need to be paid for.

The ratios in nurseries/preschools assume the staff in are interacting with the children, not in a different part of the building cleaning.

Staffing numbers per nursery shift /preschool session need to be increased to accomodate this non-education work that needs to be done. That could be an additional dedicated cleaner, or if the EY staff are doing the cleaning themselves, there needs to be more of them on each session.

If they need to arrive earlier/ stay an extra hour after the end of shift to do the cleaning, they should be paid for that time.

The OP doesn't think she's too good to clean but that while she is doing so, the dc are missing out on quality interaction with a highly trained professional who is supposed to be educating them not bleaching surfaces. They've already missed out on a large chunk of their EY education this year.

@pinkcarpet

Sounds ridiculous but what is the alternative? I'm a highly experienced finance professional yet I've had to spend the last 4 months also doing my best to be an early years educator and a cleaner, both thungs I would gladly pay someone else to do but couldn't. None of it is sustainable and the sooner we can gain some normality the better but it is not going to happen overnight and there isn't enough money in the pot to pay for everything. We all need to muddle through the next few months doing whatever we can to collectively help out

You have been cleaning your office? Every day?

And, yes, we are back to the argument that some people don't seem to believe that cleaners in public buildings are actually specially trained themselves and that getting NHS staff, TAs, teachers, supermarket workers (Tescos in news yesterday) to do this is potentially doing cleaners out of employment and is a potential hazard to those doing ad hoc cleaning, as well as the cleaning not being done properly.

@Italiandreams

Well put *@DisgruntledGuineaPig*. I don’t understand how people can’t see this. Maybe because it doesn’t directly affect them.

Because it's much more fun to do the Four Yorkshiremen than it is to critically engage with the negative impact this will have on the children.

@The3Ls - but in your case, it's like you were having the same number of patients in, but rather than treating them, you just cleaned around them, and everyone said this was acceptable because the patients got to see the specialist (even if they didn't get the treatment).

The children are in the preschool. The staff are supposed to be educating them. They are cleaning instead, not as well as.

Not ideal, but it's happening in all professions. I went to the opticians last week (small independent) and he's wiping down his own eye test room between tests. I'm an accountant and a client needed the loo when he dropped off some paperwork - I had to go in afterwards to clean it all after him. It's unpecedented times and we really can't be snowflakes about it. Nor can we all have cleaners stood around doing nothing just in case something needs cleaning occasionally.

@sheepisheep

Isn't it funny that the majority of workplaces being forced to clean regularly are also the workplaces most often worked in by women?

Can't help but feel that if banks or offices were affected to the same degree as nurseries and schools, there would be more support from the government for providing cleaning materials and manpower....

Agreed

@rwalker

It's unprecedented times it's whats needed to make your work environment function. It's all hands to the pump at our place even those superior people who better than the rest of us and menial task are clearly beneath them are mucking in.

You are all doing deep cleans daily too?

[quote BwanaMakubwa]@ballsdeep

This is how you wash 94 children's hands in 6 sinks in 5 mins.

Each child knows that they are in group 1 or group 2. Each child knows which is "their" sink.
When whistle blows, group 1 children, 47 of them, line up 8 to each sink. Group 2 can sit on carpets and sing a hand washing song or similar.

The 47 children in their lines of 8 to a sink. First child in each line wets hands and puts on the liquid soap or rubs hands on bar soap. They then go to the back of the line with hands still soapy and begin rubbing the soap in. Second child gets soap on, moves to back of line, etc.

By the time child number 1 gets back to the front of their line, they have been rubbing soap in for more than 20 seconds and the second time they get to the sink they just need to rinse their hands off quickly. And so on for child 2. They then go off to their carpet or back to back of line as you wish, with a paper towel. Staff member has bin bag holding it open and children drop their towels in as they pass on their way to the carpet.

Group 1 now do their song, group 2 do the hand wash conga.

Transformed things as DC's school.[/quote]
Genius!

@BillBaileysBum

I’m a professional with a medicine related masters degree and I’ve been working full time AND being a pseudo bloody primary and secondary teacher since March.

We’re all having to do extra stuff this year. Suck it up, Buttercup. 2020 doesn’t care about your CV.

@BillBaileysBum post of the year. Totally agree.

OP, Is your AIBU that the cleaning is mandated or that you have to do it?

@The3Ls - The OP's situation is more like if you still had the same patients in for the same number of appointments, but you cleaned around some, rather than treat them, and everyone said it was great that we were back to normal as the same number of patients go to see the specialist, even if half didn't get treated and just ignored by you for the time they were in your treatment room.

The Op's preschool isn't sending the kids home 3 hours earlier so she can clean. The OP isn't being asked to start her shift 3 hours earlier. This is the OP not educating the children while she cleans, no one else is educating the children in her place.

Her being in the building counts towards the ratios in a way that if she was taken away for 3 hours on a government mandated course wouldn't. But she's not doing the job she's being paid to do. No one is instead.

That's the real problem, not the cleaning.

Either we need to fund more staff in education to allow for regular different members of staff stepping away to do cleaning, or we need dedicated cleaners at school/EY settings during shifts (not just before/after). But either way, there needs to be more staffing and it's not reasonable to ask people to work for free long term.

@sashh

So you think maintaining a clean environment in line with current guidelines isn't your job?

Oh and I have NEVER had a paid lunch break.

Are you also expected to deep clean for three hours a day in your job?

@The3Ls Sorry, lost my reply to you but it seems to have posted it, I'm not trying to send you lots of messages!

@hopefulhalf

NHS consultant here. We are doing our own blood tests for patients rather than send them to phlebotomy as well as cleaning and airing consultation rooms between patients. All in PPE. It's a far cry from our normal working conditions, we are doing it to keep everyone as safe as possible.

First of all, doing this is not taking three hours away from treating patients. Second of all, you have PPE. School staff don't.

I just hope proper training is being given to all the people now cleaning . Commercial cleaning products don't come in handy bottles like domestic cleaning products. They come in larger containers that have to be decanted and diluted to the correct solutions to be safe and effective.They are usually a lot stronger than domestic products so wrongly diluted means they could be dangerous or ineffective. Cloths, mops etc need to be properly cleaned and disinfected.

Cleaning an area safely and effectively in a care setting for example is not the same as squirting a bit of method cleaner over your work surfaces and wiping down with a j cloth.

I didn't realise how different deep cleaning regimes are to domestic cleaning until I worked in an environment where deep cleaning is essential and we had to retrain our housekeeping staff when we changed suppliers.

Would be interested to see how many professional men are expected to clean their workplaces at the moment to the same extent.

@Kazzyhoward

Not ideal, but it's happening in all professions. I went to the opticians last week (small independent) and he's wiping down his own eye test room between tests. I'm an accountant and a client needed the loo when he dropped off some paperwork - I had to go in afterwards to clean it all after him. It's unpecedented times and we really can't be snowflakes about it. Nor can we all have cleaners stood around doing nothing just in case something needs cleaning occasionally.

Why couldn't the client clean up after himself? Was it because he had a penis?

As there are children all over our local play park (which has only just reopened) where equipment is not cleaned and there are no handwashing/sanitising facilities, I would say that this obsession with cleaning everything to the nth degree is totally pointless.

I am as qualified as you. Cleaning is part of the job. I agree it's is ridiculous to do it for that long though.

@Kazzyhoward - not comparable - your opticians will be seeing less people with gaps between to free up the time to clean.

Schools and pre-schools are expected to take back the same number of children as before, with the same number of staff per shift, being paid for the same number of hours, but somehow fit in hours of additional labour.

The EYs are the test now, by September when all schools are back, this won't work with current staffing levels. They need the money pledged now so they can recruit extra staff to cover those cleaning. Or a full time cleaner.

Everyone's children's education will suffer if staffing levels aren't increased or the additional labour requirements are reduced. It needs to be discussed and planned for, not everyone ignoring it and telling those flagging up the problem to suck it up.

I think you need to go have another look at the guidelines again. Thers no need for handwashing every 20 mins or disinfecting toys between one child using and the next. They just need to be washed in hot soapy water at the end of a session as it has to be safe for the child to put on their mouth and not all virucidal cleaners are edible! Some cleaners give several days protection on surfaces so you dont need to do it everday - just high contact surfaces. It why cleaning is best left to trained cleaners really. I hope if you are using chemicals whilst the children are there, the room is well ventilated. Some products even require masks to be worn.

I also cant understand why parents want their children to suck it up, washing their hand all day whilst the staff go round disinefcting toys and not educating them. Its like they want to punish the children rather than have some early years educator get ideas above herself.