to feel food gets in the way of friendships these days?

[bringincrazyback]

Vaguely inspired by various threads on here, but not a TAAT as the point I want to make is only tangentially related to those threads.

AIBU to feel that food logistics tend to really get in the way of friendships these days? Perhaps it's just my age, but these days it seems all meetups seem to have to revolve around a meal. It didn't used to be like that. People just used to get together over drinks (I don't necessarily mean a booze-up, I mean a few drinks in a pub, or a cafe in the daytime, or a few coffees at each other's houses) and this used to leave people a lot freer to concentrate on actually making conversation and catching up. Nowadays it seems like it's all about the food, leading to dilemmas about types of food, food intolerances, disagreements over restaurant choices, budgets, whether a specific restaurant is kid-friendly, vegan-friendly, etc etc etc... it just seems to me as though a lot of tensions arise around friendships, purely based on the food element of socialising, and it seems a pity.

I get that food can be a pleasure, but I just think eating out is overrated a lot of the time and I miss the days when it was a really special treat (e.g. for a birthday) rather than an everyday thing like it seems to be now. Plus the whole kerfuffle of deciding what to have, keeping kids under control, having to ask for missing cutlery/condiments etc, constant interruptions from the wait staff, working out how to split the bill, etc etc etc tends to really dull the enjoyment of a meal out for me as it just seems you can't really ever get a conversation going properly. I see my friends to talk to them, not to eat food, and I haven't missed restaurants one iota since lockdown started.

Surely I'm not the only one?

YABU = no, socialising is better with food.
YANBU = sometimes food does get in the way and it would be nice just to concentrate on talking and catching up.

This has happened as I've got older. In my twenties it was all about the booze and nightclubs. Then I had kids. Now on my forties when I meet up with friends it's all about the food, prices, times we eat and comfyness of the seating.

she makes a drama out of where he sits

OMG you've just reminded me, so did one of the 'friends' I'm talking about. Just one of the reasons eating out with them wasn't fun - others included constant carping if a restaurant turned out to be noisy, and arguments (not driven by me) about how to split the bill.

Actually, starting this thread has turned out to be a really good reminder of why I don't miss them (and they wouldn't be on here btw, this isn't 'that' sort of thread. lol)

That should be "HE makes a drama out of where he sits"!

I would say my parents had a more stressful, formal approach to food than my generation. In the 70s, as a young married couple, they would host formal dinner parties on a Sat night with friends and family. Lots of planning, lots of preparing and lots of washing up.

I would say things are far more informal and go with the flow. I could invite friends round and we could all order take-away. I don't spend time setting a dining room table for multiple courses, etc.

My Dad was just discussing what to do with my Mum's crystal glasses. He has 8 champagne flutes, 8 white wine glasses, 8 red wine glasses and 8 water glasses...all kept for dinner parties! Never been used since she before she died...probably 20 years sitting in the sideboard.

I don't know anyone my age who hosts formal dinner parties. They just have folk round for a meal/buffet/BBQ.

It's common to meet up without food IME. Friend and her DC coming over to play this afternoon - they'll arrive after lunch and leave before supper. May chuck a snack at the kids at some point.

Don't find it a problem, we all have to eat anyway. Perhaps I just don't have very fussy friends.

Meeting up in a pub isn't a completely neutral thing to do either; some people don't feel comfortable around alcohol, others feel pressurised to drink when they'd rather not.

I love meeting for dinner or lunch in a restaurant. Like trying new places, having a few drinks. Never any issues with the bill or anything with my friends.

@bringincrazyback

If you've never made an effort to input or organise, I can understand why they dropped you.

You're extrapolating. I never said that. I made plenty of suggestions for things we could all do together, but apparently it was still a big deal that I 'never' suggested restaurants (even though I occasionally did, just because it seemed so important to them).

Yes, but not the thing they all want to do.

No idea what you’re on about here.

Yes, but not the thing they all want to do.

So my wanting to do different things occasionally wasn't valid and I should have just kowtowed to what others wanted all the time?

Yeah sorry op I think it's your taste in friends.

I have one set of friends where we'd always include a meal, wouldn't occur to us to just sit in the pub in the middle of the day/early evening and avoid the issue of trying to squeeze it between meals.
Other friends it's usually a coffee shop but we'd still have came, possibly a sandwich as well as several drinks.
When we were younger we'd just go out drinking but even many of those nights we started in a pub for food.

The vegetarians tend to get a bigger say cos of variety of options but it's not something we've ever fallen out over.

Come to think of it, all my dates with DH revolved around food and most of my favourite times with friends are about food...

@Drivingdownthe101

YABU but not for the reasons you’ve put in your voting criteria. Food has never got in the way of my friendships. We often eat out together but can honestly say we’ve never had any arguments or friction about where to eat. No disagreements about restaurant choice, and when we do eat out I can’t say that any of the things you’ve listed have affected the experience. Weird!

This essentially. And we have a few veggies and vegans in our group. No one moans, no one complains except when the group idiot (dps friend) suggests Nando’s because we’re not 12 and don’t all think Nando’s is the pinocle of food.

So if you have a friend or relative who’s vegetarian, would you prefer them to attend and sit and not eat while every tucks into their dinners, or would you simply not invite them?

in a big gathering like a wedding, I would expect them to eat the vegetarian part of the meal, not make huge unreasonable demands as a guest.

Pretty much the same for a private gathering, but then a vegetarian would warn the host to save them from unnecessary trouble, not to make rude and fussy demands.

I have honestly NEVER been to any meal ever where the meal wasn't at least half suitable for vegetarian. I am not asking for any vegetarian to tuck into a raw steak, which are rarely served at weddings to be fair.

It was talking in the angle of the person making demands, not the angle of the host. Would you genuinely accept an invitation and tell the host "I am coming but I don't like fish, I don't like sausages, I don't like this and I don't like that"? Not quite the same as warning: I am coeliac or I have a severe nut/shellfish allergy.

I have never been to the wedding where there isn’t a vegetarian option, and I’ve been to a lot of weddings!
Our wedding menu of scallops with black pudding and pea purée followed by Venison wellington would not have been at all suitable for vegetarians (unless they wanted pea purée and potatoes/veg), so of course we had a vegetarian option (and indeed a vegan option, something suitable for a coeliac and something for an Orthodox Jew!).

It's only on MN that I discovered that a "vegetarian option" what a must-have for any wedding or party for example! so you'd happily pay £60 a head for wedding guests to not eat the pate starter and the beef dinner because meh, they're just vegetarians??

Your being flamed here a bit, but I can see where your coming from!
I tend to meet up with a friend for lunch and we just go to a pub near to her and just being two of us it's easy to split the bill and both tend to have the same things ( both meat eaters , no intolerances etc)
If it's more than two it can become a bit more tricky. I went on a Christmas night out years ago to a pub and people were being a bit picky or were complaining about it and splitting the bill was a bit of pain too as some had desserts and some didn't etc etc.

We used to just go to the pub or nightclub to see friends when I was young and any food involved was for a birthday usually and quite a rare event! It's big business these days!

Yabu

Food or rather eating is my favourite activity! We tend to meet with food these days because it's more relaxed and not such an issue for teetotallers and drivers (drinking oj all evening whilst other get drunk isn't fun). That said we don't have issues with where because there's no kids involved (all adults now) and we all are omnivores.

in a big gathering like a wedding, I would expect them to eat the vegetarian part of the meal, not make huge unreasonable demands as a guest.
So some dry toast without pate for the starter then some dry boiled veg for main?
They can't eat say the beef, or the roast potatoes cooked in goose fat, nor the beef gravy. So people you like enough to have there should have some dry toast and dry boiled veg on the side of their plate and be grateful?

As for 'everyone had a good time' I can almost guarantee that those who felt pressured to go against their ethics or eat something that they didn't like would not have had a good time. A good time is where everyone is comfortable, and that comes from the host.

I have been to many diner parties where I was served something that wouldn't have been my first choice. It's one dish in one evening, it honestly never bothered me, at worst I just ate it quickly and moved on.

The beauty of being invited for diner is trying different things, some you would never have thought about. Sometimes you like, sometimes you don't. How would you know if you don't try? And it's something you that your host spent a lot of time preparing, don't you think it's very rude to take one bite, and refuse to eat more because you don't like it?

Not everybody has the same idea of what constitutes "good food" either - some people consider themselves excellent cook and the jury is still out.

I wouldn't expect anyone to make themselves literally sick, but many rude people are just fussy.

I genuinely do not comprehend this weird fashion of submitting a menu to your guests for approval You try to avoid the obvious, but come on.

So some dry toast without pate for the starter then some dry boiled veg for main?

I can't think of any wedding where that ever was an option or part of the menu Neither are "dry boiled veg"!

I suspect the issues you've got are around eating out "with kids" rather than with friends. If I go out in the evening with friends, I don't have any of that! And the missing cutlery bit is odd. Is that something that happens to you a lot?
We sit over dinner and enjoy the food and chat until we go home.
Doing anything with small children or mixed age children is a faff anyway! It's the children that hamper conversation, not the eating.

I think there can be an element of it getting in the way.

But I don't think it's solely about eating out.

I've had friends around and cooked something simple for kids and it's become a huge issue.

My favourite being a friend (who didn't visit again) inviting herself pretty much to stay for dinner and was happy with nuggets, chips and peas and sweet corn I offered.
Child ate 1/2 nugget, one spoonful of peas and 2 chips then demanded to know what was for pudding.

'Pudding' as a thing isn't something we do at this house. Ds for a start doesn't really like puddings and if he eats his dinner and is still hungry he's offered fruit or yoghurt.

I just said I didn't have a pudding but if child was still hungry when they'd finished their dinner I had more nuggets and chips in kitchen and also fruit or yoghurt.

I didn't realise what I had said was such a bad thing.

But my 'friend' gave me a HUGE lecture about how damaging it is to make pudding a reward for eating dinner. That her child had had enough of what was offered and should be allowed to see food as a fuel and eat what she fancies.

I was totally taken aback and just said I wasn't forcing the food on her but I wasn't opening my kitchen like a cafe either and she could eat what was offered or decline.

That's an extreme example but I did find a lot when out with various mums I'd met through groups there was often gasps if certain foods were shown to parents and offered to be shared of their kids wanted it!

Luckily it only took a few months of this sort of competitive crap for me to find some parents like me!

Interestingly (and anecdotally!) 4 out of 5 of those children who's parents I decided weren't my kind of people were awful during secondary school. Combination of rebellious, entitled and bratty and one a bully. (Obviously all went to same school as ds as we are all local!)

But I still do meet friends without food being central. Sometimes we meet for a meal, sometimes for coffee and sometimes we go and sit at a local park or on the beach with a flask and some snacks!

What you describe in your OP, is very Mumsnet.

It doesn't resemble my real life at all.

YABU about food: I love eating out and eating in.

YANBU about food intolerances. The vast majority of these (and I'm not talking about proper allergies or veganism etc but the nonsense ones dreamed up by alternative nutritionists) are just neurosis or a figleaf for anorexia. I have so little patience with this, it takes all the fun out of both friendship and food. If people want to delude themselves that they can't eat wheat fine but I'm not running around catering for them.

In my friendship group we have some people with intolerances and sometimes people have been on diets but we’ve always made it work. I think it works because those with those needs aren’t militant but the rest of the group try to be accommodating. Everyone is generally quite relaxed and just happy to be out meeting up so don’t get too bogged down into the logistics. Normally we take turns taking the lead and choosing somewhere so nobody is doing all the work all the time.