To think that ‘gold diggers is just another sexist trope to make women accept shit from men?

[Merryoldgoat]

I read so many thread where a woman is scared of being called a gold digger so she accepts unbelievably asymmetric spending and ‘goes halves’ with everything even though her bf or partner significantly out-earns her and it leaves her short.

And I actually do mean early on in a relationship too.

When my DH and I first started dating in spite of similar salaries he had greater disposable as he was living at home.

He paid for most meals out (I paid for some and I did offer to go halves when I could). If I couldn’t afford something I said so and generally he just paid or we’d not do it.

When we moved in it went to 50/50 obviously, as outgoings were the same.

When I had children and went part time we pooled money and split the surplus equally.

There is nothing wrong with expecting your partner to help you out if they can and paying for things if they have more money and there’s nothing wrong with being pissed off if they don’t.

I accept I may be BU but I’ve read a few threads recently with obviously right wealthy men getting away with shit because the woman is desperate not to be seen as a gold digger.

“Perfectly reasonable but unlikely. If they didn't meet through work they'd meet socially and the point if this thread is that the high earners can afford to socialise in places the low earner can't.”

Why couldn’t they meet through work?... I’m pretty sure nurses meet all sorts of people through work.

I’m also fairly sure investment bankers must go to weddings, birthday parties in places that aren’t really expensive restaurants?

I mean... people have friends and relatives in different types of jobs, don’t they?

If you marry a man who expects you to fund your maternity leave then you have picked a horrible partner
If you marry a man who expects you to carry the financial burden of childcare then you have a picked a horrible partner
If you marry a man who expects you to carry the full physical and mental load of running the home regardless of you are a SAHP then you picked a bad partner

The common denominator is you

The common denominator is you

... the common denominator is also the man, surely?

Some people must live very narrow lives. I play a sport and belong to a club that quite literally has people from all walks of life. At club events there will be very expensive sports cars in the car park and others who needed a lift because they don't have the bus fare, so of course people can meet others who aren't exactly like them.

Socially, I'm happy to be the one who's always asked for a lift, I can help and am going anyway, so why wouldn't I? I'm happy to buy a round of drinks but I am careful not to do much more than my share, partly because I don't want to be anyone's cash cow, but more importantly because the decent people would be very uncomfortable if I did. I wouldn't choose a Harvester but that's where I go with these friends and always have a great time

@Leaannb

If you marry a man who expects you to fund your maternity leave then you have picked a horrible partner If you marry a man who expects you to carry the financial burden of childcare then you have a picked a horrible partner If you marry a man who expects you to carry the full physical and mental load of running the home regardless of you are a SAHP then you picked a bad partner

The common denominator is you

I very much doubt anyone goes into a partnership with planned children, in the expectation these things won't be shared. It might the case that the partner reneges on what's been agreed but it's rather unfair to put the blame on the woman because she's been led up the garden path.

Sad that the consensus seems to be women need to: earn more, expect more, etc- why don’t we expect more men to be nurses and careers, why don’t we expect men to value the hell that can be being with young children day in day out.

Most parents I know work. My sister doean,t. She probable relies too much on her husbands income, but then she could go back to work an earn a reasonable wage. (she did go back work between children.) However she has had the luxary of being able to be a stay at home mum. Not everyone has that choice.

@NYCDreaming

The common denominator is you

... the common denominator is also the man, surely?

No because you picked him

@Leaannb I see. So if someone treats a woman badly, it's the woman's fault for not knowing in advance that the person would treat them badly. Sounds fair.

Gold diggers are definitely real, I have seen & heard them with my own eyes.

Eg : I have gone out with groups of women who don’t intend to pay for drinks on a night out because they expect men to buy them - and then have the audacity to complain because those men are then “annoying” them by hanging around.

That’s just off the top of my head, but have had many experiences which lead me to believe gold diggers are real & this is not something men have simply concocted to make women feel bad.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

Sad that the consensus seems to be women need to: earn more, expect more, etc- why don’t we expect more men to be nurses and careers, why don’t we expect men to value the hell that can be being with young children day in day out.

Why don't you? I know plenty of male nurses and lots of SAHDs including my own husband most of the year Just in this thread alone it has been stated why don't men feel proud to take care of their family finamcially. You know who gets called gold diggers and leeches the most? Men who are married to high earners. Double Standard much?

I very much doubt anyone goes into a partnership with planned children, in the expectation these things won't be shared. It might the case that the partner reneges on what's been agreed but it's rather unfair to put the blame on the woman because she's been led up the garden path
Or that it was never discussed in depth in the first place and assumptions were made on both sides.

I think there are lots of women in successful, loving relationships who deliberately set out to find a man who could keep them in the manner they'd like to become accustomed. That's not to say they married him just for his money but there is definitely a kind of woman who would only consider a partner with a certain standard of living. This would be men who can provide a comfortable middle class lifestyle, more than the super rich though.

There also definitely exists another, less numerous, kind of woman who spends more than she can afford to dress up and go to fancy nightspots where she intends not to buy a single drink and snare a rich husband. If you are one of those men, it must make you very wary.

@dontdisturbmenow

I very much doubt anyone goes into a partnership with planned children, in the expectation these things won't be shared. It might the case that the partner reneges on what's been agreed but it's rather unfair to put the blame on the woman because she's been led up the garden path Or that it was never discussed in depth in the first place and assumptions were made on both sides.

Too many people forget that marriage is not just the creation of new family. It is very much a financial agreement agreement and why premarital counseling is so important. Too many women decide their partner with their heart and loins and ignore the many,many red flags. Men don't just wake up one day after the pregnancy test and decide to be financially abusive. Saving for maternity leave should start well before TTC. Everyone knows paid childcare is extremely expensive on both sides of the pond. If you can't afford childcare, why are you having children? If you know childcare is going to take the majority of one spouse's monthly wage wait until you earn more

That's true @tabulahrasa however like usually attracts like

From my perspective a gold digger is someone whose only interest in a man is his wealth and who goes into the relationship for that reason only.

I do think in some circumstances wealth will taint someone’s vision so that raging red flags appear benign green ones, gently fluttering in the breeze.

But if here is serious disparity in wealth the the richer pays more - you cant ask someone earning £2000 pcm to pay half of a £5000 pcm mortgage!

I've always paid my fair share.
The problem is when small dc arrive that's often when women fall behind.
I hate reading those threads like
"My dh is a high earner, I hate my job. Shall I pack it in and be a sahm?"
I think most definitely do not pack your job in.

I could never be with a man for money or give up my financial independence. I'm interested in investing and have enjoyed having my own money to fund that. I've also saved and got my own pensions set up.
I'm independent, have workplace skills I want to use and would never want to be in a position to have to ask for pocket money. Not in the gold digger sense but I think that far to many women still rely on a man's, income, pension and financial knowledge.

But if here is serious disparity in wealth the the richer pays more - you cant ask someone earning £2000 pcm to pay half of a £5000 pcm mortgage!

I'm dubious that this is prevalent in the early days of relationships. OP and her partner earned similar at the outset and I think most people date people in similar circumstances. I wouldn't be attracted to a very wealthy man (I've known a fair few) nor an insolvent one as I'd struggle with commonality of approach. Differences arise later on due to kids coming on the scene but that's were both need to be in the same page in terms of expectations.

If you know childcare is going to take the majority of one spouse's monthly wage wait until you earn more this is a nonsensical argument as there will always be a section of people who can’t earn more and whose professions don’t allow for a high enough wage, doesn’t mean they shouldn’t have children.

Tbh rich or average income the bigger importance for me is someone generous, I consider myself generous and would hate to be with someone who nit picked every bill and payment to 50/50. This to me is a red flag and I wouldn’t see someone like that again on a date.

Why don't you? I know plenty of male nurses and lots of SAHDs including my own husband most of the year ...yes my husband had to take on the bulk of childcare after I returned from mat leave as my office were inflexible and he’s self employed but that doesn’t however make him the norm. I know far more women who have felt pressurised from their partners to return to work, to delay their next child so they can pay their 50%. As I said it seems the only value a person can bring to a relationship is monetary

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

Why don't you? I know plenty of male nurses and lots of SAHDs including my own husband most of the year ...yes my husband had to take on the bulk of childcare after I returned from mat leave as my office were inflexible and he’s self employed but that doesn’t however make him the norm. I know far more women who have felt pressurised from their partners to return to work, to delay their next child so they can pay their 50%. As I said it seems the only value a person can bring to a relationship is monetary

For the majority of the population it's next to impossible to support a family on 1 income. I will.admit it's easier in the UK due to more lenient welfare subsidies and a generous maternity leave. But it's still incredibly difficult. There is nothing wrong with putting off having another child to when you can afford it. Both parents need to contribute to save up for maternity leave,help pay the bills and life work etc...It should never be just on the woman. Women are held back not because of having children but the patriarchal view that men should support the family and are emasculated by their peers,family members and even the wives themselves

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

Why don't you? I know plenty of male nurses and lots of SAHDs including my own husband most of the year ...yes my husband had to take on the bulk of childcare after I returned from mat leave as my office were inflexible and he’s self employed but that doesn’t however make him the norm. I know far more women who have felt pressurised from their partners to return to work, to delay their next child so they can pay their 50%. As I said it seems the only value a person can bring to a relationship is monetary

Sorry I got send too.soon.....My husband has had to work full time,take care of the home and children for up to 18 months by himself. I've had to do the same. It was an equal partnership then and it's an equal partnership now. I don't come home from both my jobs and sit on my ass expecting my husband to keep going. There is absolutely no excuse for that. And if anyone male or female put up with that crap they deserve what they get.

@OnlyFoolsnMothers

Sad that the consensus seems to be women need to: earn more, expect more, etc- why don’t we expect more men to be nurses and careers, why don’t we expect men to value the hell that can be being with young children day in day out.

We do.

Totally agree with the more than 1 income thing being difficult in the U.K.
Women are held back not because of having children but the patriarchal view that men should support the family and are emasculated by their peers,family members and even the wives themselves disagree because whilst society has agreed women should bring in equal money or close to it, who coordinates the children’s schedule, visits the schools, takes flexible working to do the school run, takes time off when children are sick is still predominately the woman. There will always be exceptions but on the whole it’s women who make sacrifices