How to explain the use of boomer, Karen is derogatory?

[NightSpot]

Teen Ds's. They use boomer and Karen all the time. I have said I do not like them. They argue they are not slurs, whereas I think they are. I also say Karen is misogynistic. I am not good with words and they argue rings around me.

Can someone explain in a way I can repeat? I do think though that they should respect that our house is not a playground, where I am sure they all use those words, and therefore they should respect the fact I do not want to hear them.

The same with sticking up for women is seen as TERF behaviour.

I basically need coherent arguments that make them understand why all three terms are horrible.

I see no problem with the use of Karen to refer to racist and classist women who go about harassing innocent people. I’ll reserve my outrage for pouring scorn on these women and their behaviour rather than this made up outrage about the name.

What is reductionist is the constant spinning of all of issues to be about the white female plight.

[quote Annasgirl]@Renaggie 100% concur with all your points.[/quote]
Thanks. I have two cousins my age called Sharon and Tracy and remember in the 80/90s these names being used as misogynistic classist put downs. If I mentioned their names, some people would say the most awful, sexist and classist things to my face and if I objected, it was my problem that I couldn’t take a joke.

Karen as far as I understand it isn’t about anyone’s opinion not being valid but about SOME women’s belief, often racist and classist, that they have a God given right to police the actions of others.

I appreciate that Karen started as meaning a woman who abused her privilege but it's definitely mutated to an easy way to shut people up.

It's right to challenge poor behaviour and beliefs, but do so by confronting the behaviour/ beliefs not by using stereotyping yourself.

The people who point out that there's no male equivalent, despite plenty of men abusing their privilege are correct.

Also words like chav, I agree are slurs and classist but if we applied your argument for the use of Karen, would be ok, as it doesn't refer to all working class people, just those who behave poorly. Of course it's not ok, but neither are boomer or Karen.

Name calling and stereotyping is never right, even if your intentions are honourable.

... entitled white men are typically called “middle-age white male”, which is unfairly broad. I do think an equivalent of Karen is needed to capture the very real existence of entitled white male just as the entitled white female who destroy lives and cause a lot of harassment and problems for innocent people. Call them orange tree, Karen, Joe, Jack, peach, whatever. The issue isn’t the name. It’s the behaviour. All this belly-aching over the name shows what’s really important to some of us. I can’t cry about this fragility over the use of Karen.

It's not used for women who are racist or classist in the UK; it's used for women who you disagree with. Rather like 'bitch'. The only way to avoid being a 'bitch' is to never have opinions and shut up. I could get called a Karen for telling someone else they had been racist with ease.

Besides, even if it were reserved for women who had been racist and classist, learn to use your words. Say, "this thing that Mrs Blah did is racist and classist because..."

Calling Mrs Blah a Karen achieves nothing except to make you look like an inarticulate twerp.

@Chewingbubblegum

I see no problem with the use of Karen to refer to racist and classist women who go about harassing innocent people. I’ll reserve my outrage for pouring scorn on these women and their behaviour rather than this made up outrage about the name.

What is reductionist is the constant spinning of all of issues to be about the white female plight.

No outpouring of scorn for classist or racist men I note. Call the problem what it is. Use actual words. Nicknames reduce the impact of such behaviour and allow men and the middle/upper classes a free pass.

A woman who is abusing others or causing trauma to innocent people should be exposed and told off. Sorry, no sympathy from me.

If you’re acting in an abhorrent way, then why shouldn’t you be exposed? That’s not shutting down. It’s calling people out. That’s simply saying you can no longer think you can get away with abusive treatment of others and not be held accountable.

Don’t go about harassing innocent people and making people’s lives miserable. I’ll reserve my sympathies for those at the receiving end of Karens. Karen is not a slur.

• "Boomer" is a slur because it implies the target's opinion is unworthy because they are older, and should therefore shut up.

"Karen" is a slur because it implies the target's opinion is unworthy because they are female, and should therefore shut up.*

If boomer is a slur then so is snowflake which is often used against millennials and younger people for caring about issues that effect them.

Karen does not imply that a woman’s opinion is unworthy.. it implies that a woman shouldn’t be racist.

If being called Karen (outside of the context of calling out racist women) makes you be silent, you have bigger problems.

If boomer is a slur then so is snowflake which is often used against millennials and younger people for caring about issues that effect them.

Yes. Is this supposed to be a game-changer of an argument?

The problem is white entitled women. There is no problem in using a short form to describe a problem.

I have a problem with all isms. If you want to talk about white men and their behaviour, I’m more than happy to. An ocean of ink would not be enough to write about them.

There’s really nothing more I can say on this as I expect we’ll simply go round in circles. I won’t change my mind on this and I suspect neither will any of you.

The one thing I know Karen implies is white female privilege and not that the person’s opinion does not matter. That’s your narrative you’re seeking to impose and establish as fact when quite frankly it isn’t.

My kids use those too, I'm sure it will pass and I'm ignoring it as just like everything else it will be yesterday's thing very soon!

@PotholeParadise

No. Just think it’s interesting that if it is something about older people it’s seemingly a slur and shouldn’t be used, yet when it comes to the young, not so much..

Boomer only means those born after between 1946 and 1964 anyway. Not that is accurate for them to call me a Boomer (my husband is) but we just let it go. My 12 year old sometimes calls me 'woman', and I ignore him and he always says 'sorry, only joking... Mum' and then I'll engage with him as if nothing happened 😉

My kids make me laugh, if I mention anything at all that I'm not happy with (slow delivery or something) they say. 'Uh-oh, think mums going to ask to speak to the manager'. I think it's funny!

Calling someone ‘Karen’ has long been associated with dismissing a woman with an opinion. Evidence of this is all over the internet. It takes different forms and calls out all sorts of behaviour and the traction it gets is from it being a female name. The message is it is women who are the problem, whatever that problem might be. ‘Anti-social’ Karen was the killjoy who brought her Nintendo to a party a few years ago.

[quote phoenixrosehere]@PotholeParadise

No. Just think it’s interesting that if it is something about older people it’s seemingly a slur and shouldn’t be used, yet when it comes to the young, not so much..[/quote]
Whooee where have you been? The young have been complaining about it being used to shut everything they say down for yonks.

My problem with "Karen" is that it takes behaviour that is racist, narrow minded and thick - then packages it as a middle aged white woman.

So now you can shout "Karen" at any middle aged white woman to shut her up and paint her as ridiculous.

So if I complain about a restaurant being cold I'm suddenly a "Karen" - my opinion doesnt matter, I'm probably racist and small minded so who gives a fuck what I think.

I'm none of those things but superficially fit the profile.

I simply think that inadequate customer service should be called out. I may be a boomer (born 1956), but as long as I earn and spend my own money, I am allowed an opinion on the quality of the products/services delivered. FWIW, I am unfailingly polite and respectful of the people at the sharp end, and have never quarreled with a till operator or a delivery driver. I don't give waiting staff an earful: I just ask politely for what I would like to happen, and when it does, most of the time, I am appropriately grateful, with a tip -- or a Christmas box for the postie or bin men or DPD delivery drivers. Most of the people I know are similar to me; we recognise our good fortune and privilege in life, but we don't ram it down anyone's throats. I don't know any "Karens" except my NDN, who happens to have it as her given name.

But I reckon we are both more than capable of making our disatisfaction quite clear if we don't receive what we are expecting. That's not being entitled, or racist, or classist... it's called being a careful consumer. And frankly, the world needs more of us.

Weren't "Ok Boomer" and "Gammon" coined in response to the widespread use of the word "Snowflake" by the Daily Mail etc. to describe millenials?

I see no problem with the use of Karen to refer to racist and classist women who go about harassing innocent people

You genuinely see no problem with using the name "Karen" which is associated with women of a certain age, to say someone is racist and "classist"? So everyone who is called Karen has to put up with that, even if they are not racist or "classist"? Why not call racist people racist, rather than using a common first name?

I would be so annoyed if it were my name, but as I've said, it's not that far away, given I am the age group of the women who are called Karen.

If you don't like something, criticise the behaviour/what has been said. Don't take a lazy route and call them a "karen".

My problem with "Karen" is that it takes behaviour that is racist, narrow minded and thick - then packages it as a middle aged white woman

Precisely.

My kids use the term Karen. They don’t use it as you describe. It’s only for the ridiculously rude women who complain about things which are ridiculous. Most people would roll their eyes at people like this

There is a better expression: "professional complainer". Describes what they are, isn't sexist and doesn't insult a whole group of women called Karen!

The middle aged white women I know, and they constitute most of my friends, would be horrified at this. I live in Cornwall, and the cornish don't do welcoming. You need three generations in the churchyard before you are local. And I've lived here for 40 of my 60 years.

So many labels... so little time...