How to explain the use of boomer, Karen is derogatory?

[NightSpot]

Teen Ds's. They use boomer and Karen all the time. I have said I do not like them. They argue they are not slurs, whereas I think they are. I also say Karen is misogynistic. I am not good with words and they argue rings around me.

Can someone explain in a way I can repeat? I do think though that they should respect that our house is not a playground, where I am sure they all use those words, and therefore they should respect the fact I do not want to hear them.

The same with sticking up for women is seen as TERF behaviour.

I basically need coherent arguments that make them understand why all three terms are horrible.

since you're insistently defending a misogynistic term you are clearly lacking critical thinking skills

Which misogynistic term am I defending?

'Woke' originally means socially conscious or aware, as used by black Americans. As in 'stay woke'. I don't know exactly how it's come to mean 'anyone remotely left-wing'. I got called 'woke' on here for saying I thought G-d Save The Queen was a dirge. Wtf has that got to do with social consciousness?

My DD has just this afternoon told me I am a Karen as I have a 'Live, laugh, love' sign in my kitchen. Apparently it's a sign.

I’m 20, and therefore of the ‘snowflake’ generation. I use this snowflakiness to find the term Karen offensive.

Something I really love about my mum is her ability to stand up for herself and not take shit from people- I haven’t the tits to do this yet. This apparently makes her a Karen. In which case, when I grow up, I want to be a Karen.

Marzipan you’re not a Millenial. You’re too young. You’re a Gen Z

im a millenial im 31,

When I was a student and worked in retail I encountered many, many Karen’s.
Young people are fed up of being treated as inferior by these stuck up women!
I think a lot of people need to take a long hard look at how they treat shop workers, waiters, etc.
I actually had a woman grab the two T-shirt’s I had just folded off me and re-fold them saying “you wouldn’t have your clothes folded like this in harrods”
“Yeah okay Karen, you wouldn’t get two tops for a tenner in harrods Karen now MOVE you’re holding up the queue.”

Yeah okay Karen, you wouldn’t get two tops for a tenner in harrods Karen now MOVE you’re holding up the queue.

Whether or not you have a point about her behaviour, throwing the word Karen in there (twice) makes your comment lazy and is unkind to people actually called Karen. It would work just as well without it.

Karen in the U.K. is a more working class name. It is a gendered name with no male equivalent that has gained anything like the traction ‘Karen’ has because ingrained casual misogyny is a reality even amongst those who consider themselves progressive. It is lazy and reductionist and paints women (especially older women) as problematic whilst giving men a free pass. It is regressive and maintains the status quo.

What are they talking about that they are regularly using words like 'Karen'? they sound like they need to constantly reinforce how much better they are than other people.

What's the male equivalent of a Karen? Asking for a friend.

Chav, ghetto, etc ... are they equally offensive? If they are, why hasn’t mumsnetters expressed similar outrage?

"Boomer" is a slur because it implies the target's opinion is unworthy because they are older, and should therefore shut up.

"Karen" is a slur because it implies the target's opinion is unworthy because they are female, and should therefore shut up.

@crosstalk

What's the male equivalent of a Karen? Asking for a friend.

It's Ken

@Chewingbubblegum

Chav, ghetto, etc ... are they equally offensive? If they are, why hasn’t mumsnetters expressed similar outrage?

How do you know they haven’t? If you want to discuss it, start your own thread. For the record, these terms are equally as lazy and reductive. I hear people use the term ‘chav’ a lot and make all sort of assumptions about people who live on council estates. They soon shut up when I tell them that I grew up on a council estate or say but I don’t mean people like you 🙄

It's just the next stage of language - when I was young (I am Gen X not a boomer) we called everyone over 30 Grandma, as in 'whatever grandma'. Anyone deemed as 'common' was a 'Sharon', 'Tracey' or 'Kev'.

Each generation makes their own generalisations on those older.

@Chewingbubblegum

Chav, ghetto, etc ... are they equally offensive? If they are, why hasn’t mumsnetters expressed similar outrage?

People used to argue about chav being classist on MN all the time!

No, the male equivalent doesn’t really exist. I seen the following suggested:
Chad
Kyle
Kevin
Ken
Darren
Dave
Gary

No male names get the same traction or notoriety. This false equivalence is just a way of pretending that the popularity of ‘Karen’ doesn’t stem from underlying misogyny.

Chav is classist but not a slur?

Karen as far as I understand it isn’t about anyone’s opinion not being valid but about SOME women’s belief, often racist and classist, that they have a God given right to police the actions of others.

@Chewingbubblegum

Chav is classist but not a slur?

Karen as far as I understand it isn’t about anyone’s opinion not being valid but about SOME women’s belief, often racist and classist, that they have a God given right to police the actions of others.

Why choose a common female name (who in this country anyway are most likely to be middle aged and working class) to police women’s behaviour? Aren’t you just doing the same? If an individual’s behaviour is racist or classist, call it that! Call it what it is! No male equivalent says it all to me.

Boomer is intended as a slur.

Sadly, yes. At one time, it just described a demographic for those of us born between 1946 and 1964. Then we became old. And because older people, especially older women, are so devalued by society, it became a slur.

So if a male equivalent is chosen (eg Jim), would you be okay with that?

By the way, I’ve heard men being called Karen (ie, he is a Karen).

The name John is not always used in a positive way.

@Renaggie 100% concur with all your points.

@Chewingbubblegum

So if a male equivalent is chosen (eg Jim), would you be okay with that?

By the way, I’ve heard men being called Karen (ie, he is a Karen).

The name John is not always used in a positive way.

No. Use of given names etc. is lazy and reductionist as I have already said. But using ‘John’ as an example is false equivalence. Not seeing ‘John’ all over social media! As for men being called a ‘Karen’, which rarely happens, the insult comes from the fact that it is a female given name. Plenty of examples of men (and some women) using it with glee on the internet to disguise their misogyny. Many who use it are unaware that is a Danish peasant form of ‘Katherine’ and is also the name of a persecuted ethic group in Myanmar (although the pronunciation is different).

@Chewingbubblegum

Chav is classist but not a slur?

Karen as far as I understand it isn’t about anyone’s opinion not being valid but about SOME women’s belief, often racist and classist, that they have a God given right to police the actions of others.

Derogatory, classist slur, yes. Did you actually really think I was saying it was a classist but not a slur.

In the days of yore when it was a fashionable word, people would start threads about what they thought about it.

Other people would drop it into their rant about some person they'd encountered and then find their thread was completely derailed by other MNers asking why they'd used a classist slur, what they'd intended to mean and so on.

They stopped doing it.

Now exactly the same thing is happening with Karen. Que sera, sera, to quote Pink Martini.