The NHS has collapsed.

[brahmahda]

It's great that no Covid wards have been overwhelmed for lack of ventilators - Clap Clap. But ...

1. My regular preventative treatment for a chronic condition has stopped, with no sign of it restarting.
2. My 13yo son needs diagnostic tests for symptoms he's had for several months, but the diagnostic clinic is closed, again with no sign of it restarting.
3. A vital service that the GP would normally provide has been redirected to a "hub" with a convoluted appointment booking process and a very long waiting list.
4. My elderly, isolated/ing mum who urgently needs a face-to-face with her GP due to a sudden decline in her health has been messed around with a complicated process that changes depends on who she speaks to (she was phoned and told she'd need to get a Covid test 10 mins before setting off for the appointment, so had to cancel it).

Of course issues of delayed cancer treatments etc have been widely reported in the news, but it's clear that they are just the tip of the iceberg. The problems must be impacting almost every family in the country to some extent, and there's no sign of them being temporary. I just can't see the NHS getting back onto it's already-shaky track in the foreseeable future.

Anyone else find this terrifying?

This isn't my experience. My friends and relatives with cancer have continued to receive treatment, my chronic condition has continued to be monitored, my father had an emergency bowel operation a couple of weeks ago after a diagnosis in A&E, my boyfriend had an immediate treatment of a dog bite in A&E, and I've just had a round of NHS IVF (after a four month delay, but I'm happy with that).

I really can't fault the NHS at all.

I agree OP. My DH has 3 hospital appointments which have all been cancelled. He is waiting on two operations for chronic conditions. He is suffering and in pain. I cannot get hold of consultant secretaries or find anyone that will pick up the phone and help me help him. He feels like he has been abandoned and is not coping well. It has impacted his mental health massively.

Agree I work for them and it's a disaster..
People still " working from home " managers not having a clue.
On and on it goes

I'm in the 'NHS is broken' camp unfortunately. My elderly relative had a fall and needs an x-ray to check for a fracture to her spine. The waiting time is at least four weeks. Four weeks to see if you have fractured your spine. Four weeks when she can't get any treatment for the significant pain she is in because they won't do anything until they know what they are dealing with.

My son is waiting to see a consultant, the waiting list is four years long. I need an injection that my GP can't provide. It takes seconds. The waiting time is 18 months to 2 years and in the meantime I am in such pain that it impacts my life quite badly.

I don't blame the staff obviously, but the system has stretched to breaking point. Beyond breaking point.

I think it depends entirely on where you are and - to some extent - your issue.

My partner was seen promptly by an ENT (non-urgent) consultant and later by the fracture clinic after self-referral to the non-urgent treatment centre with what turned out to be a fractured arm. My Dad has been seen very quickly by a practice nurse about several problems and I was able to get him a podiatry appointment. He has also recently had a scheduled eye clinic appointment.

I have had excellent service from the nhs since March, my children have had four video appointments and two telephone appointments, I myself have had a telephone appointment. All have been with consultants at three different hospitals.
Both myself and my children have used 111 and had prescriptions sent immediately to a pharmacy.
One of my dc after a telephone appointment was given a same day in person GP appointment.
I am really impressed by how efficient it has been.

1. My regular preventative treatment for a chronic condition has stopped, with no sign of it restarting. As has mine but the alternative is working, at the moment

2. My 13yo son needs diagnostic tests for symptoms he's had for several months, but the diagnostic clinic is closed, again with no sign of it restarting. A friend's teen son is getting beter help from CAMHS than he ever had before - which she finds really weird, but is very grateful
3. A vital service that the GP would normally provide has been redirected to a "hub" with a convoluted appointment booking process and a very long waiting list. I'm part of one of those. We are still arguing with the surgery about their processes
4. My elderly, isolated/ing mum who urgently needs a face-to-face with her GP due to a sudden decline in her health has been messed around with a complicated process that changes depends on who she speaks to (she was phoned and told she'd need to get a Covid test 10 mins before setting off for the appointment, so had to cancel it). My aunt had her care package increased, her respite days increased and was seen until she passed, MND is a bastard.

I'm not trying to belittle your experiences but just wated to point out that the NHS as a whole hasn't collapsed and is doing its level best to gear up for the new way of working. It's really hard to do when it involves such specialist training. Even some nurses don't understand why they are sat on empty wards doing Jack Shit... because it isn't them, their part of the service that has the backlog, or is the log jam!

The NHS was collapsing before Covid-19; the last few months has escalated the problems, however it is not quite collapsed yet.

The service was run down under Thatcher, improved after 1997. We all know what we have to do.

Our GP is locked. They have big "stay the fuck away" signs on the doors. You have to phone and jump through dozens of hoops before the GP will see you, and if they do unlock the doors to let you in, they put the fear of god into you about wearing masks, not touching anything and sanitising. And they wonder why people are staying away.

My dad is showing early signs of dementia and my mum is worried. They can't do video calling - they don't have a lap top or a smartphone. The consultant has been redeployed to deal with the non-existent covid cases in their area. Mum leaves endless messages for secretaries and nurses, no-one calls her back. No, she can't email or text. Or fill in a sodding webform. And thanks to Nicola Sturgeon, I can't steam in and try to sort it out as i'm not allowed over their doorstep.

We are now overdue for 2 orthodontics appointments, 5 standard dental check-ups, 2 eye tests and 2 out patients appointments.

I have a heart condition that has gone worse, I am waiting for the GP to call me back - there is a ten day wait just to speak to the doctor by phone,then I will have to wait to actually see him - how long I don't know. If my heart condition has got much worse (and I am sure some patients will be in this position) the phone could too late.

I do not understand why we are not operating a full health service again, there are no covid cases in our local hospitals, and hasn't been for months. What is going on?

My daughter has a chronic condition which means she has hospital appointments once every 3 months. We had one telephone one and one where we went in. It was very quiet, hardly anyone around but we still didn't get seen any faster than usual (but at least we still have the service).

I've had to use the GP twice. Once for my DD (for a minor ailment)and once for a medication review for me. Both were telephone appointments and both were at the time we were given when we rung for the appointment and I have to say, I preferred it. The appointments were made for the same day and no sitting around in the waiting room for an extra hour, waiting for everyone else who's run over their appointment time. I hope that aspect continues after Covid has gone away (if it ever does).

I haven't read the whole thread so apologies if this has already been posted.

Has anyone seen the Triggernometry interview with Karol Sikora (a UK based physician specialising in oncology)? He says they won't know for certain util next year when the data is available but they are predicting between 20K and 50K excess cancer deaths due to COVID/lockdown.

@1neverending

And hospitals are working hard to prepare for winter and any potential second waves

Sorry they were quoting us that here a month ago getting ready for second wave, before that they were locked down so no ops. etc. They are saving a bundle, no agency nurses needed only doing emergency stuff, clinics still to restart. I think it is a postcode lottery.

I certainly feel the 20% of my massive taxes that go to an NHS I never use (one 7 minute appointment in last 15 years..... do I get a tax refund! - I am very lucky not to get ill) could be better spent with the 20% of my taxes put into my hands to choose how I spend it particulary as I am not paid by the state and have had no furlough money.

This is a thread started in July when the peak admissions and deaths had not long passed.

Language like 'collapsed' and 'broken' is so all or nothing.

Of course the NHS has been under great strain, and it is deeply concerning, tragic and inconvenient for people who have been left between the gaps to whatever extent (between tragic and inconvenient).

But it isn't happening wholesale across the whole service, and like many others, I can report excellent service in several ways within my extended family over the last couple of months in a few regions and different hospitals and surgeries.

Without a doubt the NHS will need extra support to accommodate and recover from COVID-19, and some things have fallen between the cracks as a global pandemic struck - sadly, how could we expect otherwise?

The NHS is a service with finite resources, workforce and premises. It isn't a Magic Kingdom.

Bugger!

Thanks @DidoAtTheLido I hadn't even noticed the OP date!

YANBU

OH emergency surgery scheduled in March cancelled, went private, cancelled night before. NHS had taken over all private hospitals. Fast forward to July have e mailed many times to hospital never a response. Got MP involved a month ago who was very helpful they are being stone walled too. My DIL cannot have a smear she has cancerous cells, one ablation follow ups cancelled. She is going to try and get a private one. OH is going to try and get a private op again now private hospital coming available.

To be fair friends who are GPs in Wales said the NHS there was fooked five years ago.

The NHS was already broken , Covid may now be being used as an excuse but it’s been fairly crap for a number of years . I’m also supposed to see someone every 6 months for a chronic condition I haven’t been seen for at least 18 months . Fortunately I do have an excellent GP and I know lots about my condition so I get the Gp to order what bloods I need and I do the rest with the medication . In 2017 I had to go private because the NHS made it very clear that they were happy for me to die rather than diagnose me ( discharged 3x as unwell as I went in ) , and in 2018/19 they were equally appalling with the care of my mother .

Xenia - maybe ask how much benefit you get from having a healthy workforce and clients, all remaining healthy enough to pay you due to NHS treatment.

Ditto the NHS that keeps your Dc lecturers at Uni, your other Dc employers etc, all healthy to give them jobs etc.

You benefit indirectly from the NHS keeping those who support you , whether firefighters, police, train drivers etc, healthy.

My daughters awaiting surgery but need several treatments first, these have been unable to go ahead so now she’s looking at at least a 2 year wait for surgery. Yet there’s posts on here from NHS staff saying they have nothing to do because no clinics are running 😡

This JULY thread was resurrected by someone whose post was deleted by MN.

@Xenia Did you use the nhs for your 5 births? In other countries, giving birth can be expensive. in my home country, singapore, even subsidized births in the most basic ward come up to at least £5k and most people spend 6 figure sums. My DH has private insurance and tbh, its not much better than the NHS. We have been waiting a month for his harley street surgeon and the abscess has thankfully been cured thanks to antibiotics so no need for the surgeon.

I am proud of the NHS even as a backup. I look at it more like an insurance scheme- at least no matter what happens to me in life, i can rely on it. You pay home insurance but how often does your house get burglared or set on fire, but I bet you don't complain about it being wasted money. health is much more precious than possessions.

In fact, it is much more a certainty that we will all grow old and get sick one day, hence needing the NHS. Even if you go private, you might still need the NHS as depending on what you get, the nhs provision might be more suitable. We are lucky to have the NHS as an option; in other countries, there might be universal healthcare/subsidies but there are almost always caveats attached.

Yes and I am not against a much smaller NHS. I don't want to move to entirely private provision.
I used the NHS for the first 3 children in the 1980s but we were out of hospital the same day so no nights of stay and nothing like over my life what I have paid in got back, but certainly used a midwife and with the twins though I hired a private midwife. It des seem every time my son needs something I have to pay. I was h oping 1 July when he left university was the end but he is now doing 2 years more study and I pay for their medical stuff when they are studying if they cannot use the NHS. He rarely seems to have anything the NHS can handle and seems to know Harley Street like the back of his hand. Roll on two years' time....

@Xenia

I certainly feel the 20% of my massive taxes that go to an NHS I never use (one 7 minute appointment in last 15 years..... do I get a tax refund! - I am very lucky not to get ill) could be better spent with the 20% of my taxes put into my hands to choose how I spend it particulary as I am not paid by the state and have had no furlough money.

Ha....you're not living in a vacuum Xenia.