Nursery have used funded hours to repay furlough money

[KittyKat1983]

Hi, just after a bit of advice if anyone knows where I stand with this. My DD was due back at nursery next week as I am going back to work. She gets 30 hours funded by the government which I have been renewing all through lockdown and she hasn’t attended since March. The nursery are now saying we will have to pay for her place as they have used the funded hours to repay the furlough money they claimed off the government. Does anyone know if they can actually do this? It’s left me stuck because I can’t afford to pay the full rate so won’t be able to return to work. Thanks in advance.

I don’t understand what they mean tbh. They don’t need to repay the furlough money. Ask them to clarify.

So they’ve been claiming for her 30hrs even though she’s not there? Then paying the staff with that money rather than whatever furlough pay the giver meant allocated to them?

I mean honestly I know nothing about it but it sounds illegal

Do you have hours stretched as they are open all year round? Its about 20 is hours a week then.

You should still be entitled to the weeks left if they are stretched hours.

They have said the government are now clawing back the furlough money @RemyHadley

Furlough money doesn't have to be repaid. A business interruption loan would need to be repaid. It sounds like they may have misused the funds.

Either way, the scheme doesn't apply during holidays and it probably can't be used now instead.

@Jumblebumblemess yes they are stretched hours, she usually goes all year round rather than term-time only

@DartmoorDoughnut

So they’ve been claiming for her 30hrs even though she’s not there? Then paying the staff with that money rather than whatever furlough pay the giver meant allocated to them?

I mean honestly I know nothing about it but it sounds illegal

This was not illegal and completely above board. This was the subsidy the government gave to setting during lockdown even if children didn't attend or they were closed. If they hadn't hundreds of settings would have gone under.

@RemyHadley

I don’t understand what they mean tbh. They don’t need to repay the furlough money. Ask them to clarify.

Nurseries do. They were not allowed to claim furlough because they already get government funding, however that wasn't made clear until after a lot of nurseries had furloughed their staff.

Not sure how it's going to work re the hours @KittyKat1983, but it is something that's going to be an issue in many nurseries

I would be looking for another place for her on the grounds that the nursery are at best thick and incompetent and at worst lying, swindling cunts.

(That's if I've read your OP correctly!)

I think I read that nurseries were allowed to do this to help them to continue. Not to repay furlough, just to claim the 30 hours funding they would normally have received?

Nope they can’t. If they have claimed funding and you need the place they have to honour it. Or you can go to a different nursery that will claim funding and then the funding for your daughter will be reclaimed from the first nursery.

They could however be in a complete mess. It was very confusing as to whether you could claim furlough and funding and they could have completely stuffed up their finances.

There was something about them changing the criteria for nurseries claiming furlough so that they could only claim for privately funded hours not publicly. Can’t remember detail. Maybe they received some money from furlough for funded hours before the change and now need to repay it?

Sounds dodgy though. They receive that money to provide your child with a place, they can’t reallocate it to spend on what they like I wouldn’t have thought.

@Butchyrestingface

I would be looking for another place for her on the grounds that the nursery are at best thick and incompetent and at worst lying, swindling cunts.

(That's if I've read your OP correctly!)

This mess isn't down to the nursery

It's down to the absolute incompetence of the government who only excluded nurseries after a lot had claimed furlough payments

I think the government kept paying the nurseries funded hours when they were closed to cover the nursery costs so they didn't go out of business (or something like that).

The 30 funded hours don't cover the holidays so you'd be expected to pay for this time anyway- you've never been allowed to 'save them up' to use at another time (although some nurseries allow you to spread the cost over the year)

I’m just really panicking. If I’d know before now I could have used the funded hours for a childminder or a different setting, but they have only given me a week’s notice

Nurseries do. They were not allowed to claim furlough because they already get government funding, however that wasn't made clear until after a lot of nurseries had furloughed their staff

... Aaaaaand that changes the picture somewhat.

They should have been told in advance. Is that situation UK wide? And was the nursery OPEN during Lockdown, OP?

Unless you already had an agreement to stretch your find hours to all year round then yes they are correct.

Our nursery had to use the funded money to pay staff before furlough. I don’t really understand why but it is what it is. DD has gone back to nursery and is still getting her funded hours though and we aren’t having to pay full fees in place of the funding. From speaking to my DDs nursery and from speaking to nursery workers, the only reason why they wouldn’t have been eligible for some furlough is if they had to use bank staff as you can’t be furloughing people and using bank staff. I would definitely question why you aren’t getting the funding.

[quote KittyKat1983]@Jumblebumblemess yes they are stretched hours, she usually goes all year round rather than term-time only[/quote]
You should be able to use the hours for the rest of this academic year then until September. Ask them why you can't, and try and get it in writing. Also may be worth calling the local authority as I am sure they can't use the funding this way. You are entitled to the hours that you have had stretched over the year.

This mess isn't down to the nursery

Do you not think the OP should have been advised of the situation by the nursery? She's saying she would have used the funding elsewhere had she known.

@NerrSnerr sorry yes, my DDs hours are spread over the year, I’ve not tried to save them up

That sounds as shady as hell. Surely it’s misappropriation or similar?

Can you have a chat with OFSTED and whichever government body administrates the free hours entitlement?

Just to add, I do think nurseries were being screwed a bit with the furlough and some being forced to stay open for vulnerable kids and key worker kids whilst not receiving enough to operate as you have to have a certain amount of staff in per certain amount of kids

@Butchyrestingface

This mess isn't down to the nursery

Do you not think the OP should have been advised of the situation by the nursery? She's saying she would have used the funding elsewhere had she known.

She probably wouldn't have been able to do that if the nursery had already claimed the terms funding.

They wouldn't have known when they furloughed their staff that they would end up having to use the funded money so they couldn't have informed her.

Nurseries were not able to claim furlough for staff costs for the percentage of their income that comes from government funding.
They still received the terms' funding as usual.
Hours not used due to COVID closures are not able to be accrued to be used during unfunded holiday weeks.
But, if you usually claim stretched funding you should still be able to have those funded hours now throughout the summer hols.