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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Is it ever ok to have an affair?

94 replies

Confusedandmuddlingalong · 17/07/2020 17:15

A couple close to me have just announced their separation. They’ve been married nearly 20 years and have 3dcs aged between 10 and 15.

She has admitted in the past that she chose her husband because he is a good man and she desperately wanted children but that she never truly loved him.

He really tried in the relationship but eventually realised that she was never going to love him the way he loved her. We, their friends, have witnessed some very uncomfortable moments when she has rolled her eyes at things he says, does, just everything he did was wrong.

But she appreciated what a good father he is and she absolutely lives for her dcs.

Well, it turns out that he’d been having an affair for the past 3 years. Wanted to leave the marriage but she went all guns blazing, reminded him that he promised to never leave the children, that she could forgive his affair if he ended it for the sake of the children.

However, in a weird twist, turns out she’s actually also been having an affair!

Lockdown brought everything to a head and she has decided to end the marriage and continue with her AP.

I’m trying to stay as neutral as possible because I am friends with both of them but I can’t help but secretly have more sympathy for him.

His AP has moved on with someone else and it looks as though he’ll not have main custody of the children which has broken him.

So the question is, was he completely wrong to have an affair when he was in a loveless marriage for the sake of not breaking up a family?

OP posts:
MandosHatHair · 19/07/2020 01:02

It really depends on the situation. My DF cheated on my DM at any opportunity just because he could. On the other hand, I'm glad my MIL had an affair. Her ex husband was a piece of shit abuser who had broken her self esteem long before he threw the first punch. She was allowed a job because they needed the money which is where she met her now DH, who gave her the confidence to leave. Quite frankly FIL deserved the 'humiliation' he recieved.

HoneyBeeHappy · 19/07/2020 02:07

@ IceCreamSummer20 so are all acts of abuse equal then?

I was married for thirteen years before I had a six week affair. During that time my dh:

Humiliated me in public because I didn’t cut up a piece of meat in the way he felt was appropriate (I ended up leaving my dinner because I felt so ashamed,)

When I was asked to contribute to my DC’s nursery by helping out with some musical activities he told me in front of the DC that it wouldn’t be happening. DC excitedly told him that “mummy will be coming in to do x” and his instant response was “no you won’t.”

I applied to do a college course, and unfortunately he got sight of the letter before I saw it read it, and told me I had been declined and shredded it before I could see it, the reasons given were so unexpected that I have always wondered whether I was actually accepted and he just wouldn’t let me go, but it never occurred to me to question it at the time.

Told me that we needed to have sex to prove that we could for the post birth check-up. We would be going up when the baby went down for a nap, and that’s exactly what happened. I only realised very recently what that actually meant.

In between the marriage was actually a decent one. You don’t notice the emotional stuff when it happens on a gradual scale.

I never justified having an affair, I simply explained the circumstances in which it happened.

In emotionally abusive relationships you don’t consider the possibility of being in danger. It’s not the same as a physical relationship where you face physical harm as a result of being found out. But at the time I didn’t think about that, I thought that actually, there were people out there who seemed to think I was a pretty decent human being when previously I had been told I wasn’t but it was ok, at least he loved me, even if I wasn’t as good a shag as his ex.

Ironically he would have taken me back after the affair. But at that point I knew that things would become much worse, and besides, I had told him at that point I was leaving. We’d been talking about splitting prior to that anyway but there were always reasons why we couldn’t. It’s actually not as easy as some people seem to think it is to walk out on someone without having a reason to do so.

Being abused didn’t justify my affair. But my affair did justify splitting up and his being able to retain his dignity and remain the innocent party who had done no wrong.

OK, so having had a six week long affair, most of which was emotional and only ended up in sex once, I am an abuser. But tell me this. If a couple are in a relationship where there is violence from one side and one day the victim retaliates and hits him back, is she then also an abuser? Are those things equal?

Even a woman who murders her husband in self defence is often justified because of everything she has been through. yet someone can go through years of emotional abuse and when they have an affair at the end of that, somehow what they have done is considered worse...

I can hand on heart say that I would never have another affair.

My ex on the other hand is now with someone else and his behaviour towards her is following the same pattern. He’s already managed to move her away from friends, gaslights her, made her believe I was totally against her in the beginning to ensure that she and I would never actually get to talk. The difference is that she uses their children as weapons and threatens him that if they ever split he will never see them again. She’s already turned her own DC against their father, and even though they do see him occasionally it is very much not encouraged.

But people need to distinguish between justifiable/ok and understandable. I never justified my affair. I have written about it on here before and I have never said that what I did was ok. But such a situation can make it understandable.

Life just isn’t that black and white.

Adviceneeded2020 · 19/07/2020 02:29

For me all this crap about whether or not you love the person or are "in love ' with them..whether or nor there's a spark or you are just making do for the sake of your children, this is a.complete nonsense.

The idea that.its ok to cheat on someone if they don't love.you.enough is just a convenient excuse for people.who want to cheat.
If you choose to marry someone then, regardless of how much they live.you you commit to that relationship,

groovergirl · 19/07/2020 06:38

If you're going to cheat, think about the third party in this "arrangement". What's in it for them?

In my 20s I was sometimes approached by boyfriends/husbands who wanted a bit on the side. Tho I wasn't pretty enough to be a GF, I was fit, energetic and would have been good in the sack. But did I want to lurk in the shadows, blocking out my weekend afternoons for these guys?

I'm now divorced after a long, sexless marriage, and have compassion toward people who stray into affairs. I would have loved to meet someone who made me feel gorgeous. But please, think about your potential AP. Don't waste their time.

HoneyBeeHappy · 19/07/2020 07:29

But if it’s not ok to cheat if someone doesn’t love you enough (and just for reference I agree,) is it ok to leave a relationship if it’s loveless?

So many people say that if you’re unhappy then you should leave, and in an ideal world that would be the case.

But if someone does develop feelings for someone else and leaves their relationship before anything happens, people still look at it as a betrayal. Equally if someone comes on here saying their partner doesn’t love them any more, the instant response is “there will be an OW, 100%.”

Should we be more open to the reality that relationships do run their course, and that falling out of love with someone is in fact human, and it is therefore ok to end a relationship before you enter into the realms of an affair.

Because I get the distinct impression from some that the belief is that it’s never ok to end a marriage.

ShebaShimmyShake · 19/07/2020 08:53

OK, so having had a six week long affair, most of which was emotional and only ended up in sex once, I am an abuser

Of course you're not, especially in that context. Obviously the saintly thing to do would have been not to have the affair, but it was hardly an act of evil and plainly wasn't the worst thing to have happened in your marriage. It was a symptom, not the cause. The marriage was abusive and dead in the water already.

This is what I mean when I say affairs are never "right" but they're not all the same and they're not always the worst thing in the marriage. Of course, sometimes they are. But the fact that yours wasn't doesn't detract from the plight of spouses who were betrayed by the worst kind of affair. It's not a zero sum game in that respect.

Dexysmidnightstroller · 19/07/2020 09:25

My brother was married to an abusive woman. She was a staggering hypocrite in all respects - spent all his income, moved to alienate all his family whilst insisting he was always involved with hers, eventually had affair after affair telling her friends it was his fault, and took him to the cleaners on divorce. He managed to buy a small place for himself, is still a great dad to the kids (whom she basically ignores and demands he pays for all their needs on top of the full child maintenance, and says he is responsible for all their education as “I can’t do it”). Turns out he met someone as the marriage went downhill, they are now together and happy, whilst his ex has introduced the children to 3 new boyfriends in the past year none of whom stick around. I don’t begrudge him having an affair to be honest.

Waveysnail · 19/07/2020 09:38

Other peoples lives up to them. The husband needs to get a good lawyer. Theres no reason he cant have 50:50.

thebear1 · 19/07/2020 09:46

I used to be very black and white and think it was never acceptable but I now have some friends who are in marriages where I would not blame them at all for an affair. Yes ideally they should leave the marriage first but it's not always easy to do so, just to be alone.

Alloverthegrapevine · 19/07/2020 09:49

Someone who falls for someone else and leaves without cheating will always have it assumed that they did cheat anyway. How many threads do we see about men who have a "OW" relatively quickly but no one believes nothing happened before the split?

IceCreamSummer20 · 19/07/2020 12:29

@ IceCreamSummer20 so are all acts of abuse equal then?

No I don’t believe they are. In my opinion, any affair is an abusive act - the same way screaming at your partner, is an abusive act. However if it is only once, you were in a really bad state etc - then I think most of us would see the context? It doesn’t for me change that the act itself is one of harm, but it’s within a context.

You were obviously very unhappy and also left your marriage very soon after the affair. You were not happily stringing him along, and you realized that to have an affair you must have been in a very bad place and you used that information and left. I think ‘abuse’ in a marriage is when that harm is repeated isn’t it?

My fear is that any excuse for an affair can enable other men or women to justify their acts of harm - can say it does not cause harm because of such and such. It scares me as my Ex justified his cheating on me with increasing accusations that he was being emotionally abused by me - as he knew that he could get sympathy from his family and friends who had found out that he was cheating. It is very common for people who are abusive to accuse their partner of being abusive - to justify increasing abuse. So I will never say to anyone - even if it is true that they are being emotionally abused - that it is OK that they then have an affair and that this ‘wakes you up’ to abuse. As my Ex changed from being emotionally abusive to bordering on the physical when he felt his affairs were ‘waking him up’ to how awful I was. Not only was I being cheated on but I think became a victim of quite frightening emotional and verbal abuse from my Ex as he ‘needed’ to prove how awful I was. It’s quite twisted and messy. I was trapped within it financially, emotionally for a while and could not find a way out while this was happening and it was a scary experience.

This is one reason that I do feel we should be incredibly wary of justifying affairs as being because the parter is abusive or non loving in some way. I do think it can increase animosity to the partner. We just need to leave if we feel our partner is abusive.

IceCreamSummer20 · 19/07/2020 12:36

@HoneyBeeHappy so if the above doesn’t make sense - what I am saying that as long as you are not justifying that your affair was OK and that no harm was caused - then if I was your friend I would have compassion and sympathy for you. And I hope that you are in a better place now.

Malbecblooms · 19/07/2020 13:53

I don't think it's ever excusable but I do see how it happens. You see on here all the time (mainly) women who stop having sex with their husband. Or partners that stop focusing on their appearance or stop engaging.

No it's not ok and its appalling to damage children by breaking up a marriage but I don't think you can be completely blameless for or surprised by your partner's affair of you stop being intimate and put on weight and stop wearing makeup and pretty clothes if that is what you were like when you met.

ChangedMyNameYetAgain · 19/07/2020 16:59

My XP beat me up when I confronted him about his cheating.

The cheating hurt a million times more than the beating. Months, maybe years, of lies. I'll never know if he had planned to beat me up but I think he had. He had been drip-feeding lies about my sanity to me and to his friends and family so that they would not believe me.

How could someone do that to another human being? All for some * who knew he wasn't single.

PablosHoney · 19/07/2020 17:28

Understandable yes

Dozer · 19/07/2020 17:32

An affair is an awful way to treat one’s partner and DC. Whatever the circumstances.

If you genuinely like both of them, and want to stay in touch with them both, best stay out of it and avoid discussing their relationship.

Dozer · 19/07/2020 17:35

If people in a relationship, for any reason, want a sexual relationship with others, much kinder to end the relationship or at least tell partners they intend having sex with others, so the partners can make informed decisions about their life.

AgeLikeWine · 19/07/2020 17:54

I think there are some circumstances when an affair, or some sort of sexual relationship outside the marriage is justified.

If a couple are married with children, and one spouse completely withdraws sex and refuses to do anything to change the situation, the partner who is being forced into unwanted celibacy has a choice. They can end the marriage and break up the family, or they can get sex elsewhere. If everything except the sex is fine, and the children are happy, an affair or FWB arrangement is justified.

IceCreamSummer20 · 19/07/2020 22:52

@AgeLikeWine

I think there are some circumstances when an affair, or some sort of sexual relationship outside the marriage is justified.

If a couple are married with children, and one spouse completely withdraws sex and refuses to do anything to change the situation, the partner who is being forced into unwanted celibacy has a choice. They can end the marriage and break up the family, or they can get sex elsewhere. If everything except the sex is fine, and the children are happy, an affair or FWB arrangement is justified.

No I don’t know how you justify that! It would make it understandable that one partner might want to end the relationship.

Or ask the partner if they would agree to an open relationship.

It is not an excuse to lie to them and break the promise. The other spouse, even if they had stopped having sex, is staying with their spouse because they think that it is exclusive. It is always, always, withholding vital information from a partner so that they can make their own decision about whether to stay with someone who wants to cheat.

Also, many people stop having sex either through physical changes like menopause, illness, or feeling rubbish because the relationship doesn’t make them feel good. It isn’t to make their relationship suffer and they may still very much love their partner. The pain caused by the affair on top of feeling non sexual could be even worse.

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