Independent NON RELIGIOUS schools in Birmingham

[AnaPeon]

Hi, parents of the world,

I am looking for a school for my daughter, turning 5 in the autumn 2021, in the southern area of Birmingham (easy access to uni, in any case). On paper, I really like the following:

1. Moor Green: their website says it is a forest school. How much more is it than other schools? Also, they say nothing about streaming: do they not do it?

2. Tiverton

3. Bournville Village

4. Harborne Primary

I got the feeling (always from the website) that Bournville and Harborne are very focused on contents and somehow potentiate competition. Any thoughts on this? Also, they don't specify whether streaming is done in separate classrooms or not. Does anyone know?

Any hints on how to make up my mind, considering that visiting is hard for me as I won't be around until after the normal open days dates and COVID is making it hard?

Finally, as a back up plan, any private schools in the spirit of a Forest school that work well?

Many thanks in advance!

Hi! Harborne Primary is not an independent school - it’s a state school, and, unless things have changed radically in the last few years, is very oversubscribed. You have to live very close to the school to get a place.

I’m not sure about the others on your list, but I think they are also state schools.

Or did you intend “independent” to mean something other than “private”?

Do you mean private schools? Because, as above, you’ve not put independent schools on your list.

There are no completely secular schools in Britain. This comes up time after time on mumsnet, mainly from people whose children are just about to start school. We are a Christian country, we have a state religion. Therefore state schools are Christian. They may not be faith schools, but Christian nevertheless.

Also, I’m not sure about what it means to be in the spirit of a Forest School, but you should bear in mind that we have state grammar schools here, and competition for places at these and the excellent private secondary schools is fierce. This tends to dominate parental thinking at the upper end of primary school, especially in the private sector, and extra tuition for the secondary school places is rife. I suspect that this is not in the Forest School spirit!

Opting out of the competition is of course possible, but the quality of the non-selective secondary schools is highly variable, so to be fully relaxed about the move to secondary you need to live near one of the good non-selective secondary schools!

I don’t know anything about the schools as I’m not in Birmingham but I know a bit about the school application process. We have a big shortage of places in Leeds and I’ve got friends who’ve been very disappointed with their offers.

Despite being told otherwise you don’t really get a choice of school, especially if it’s to suit the area where you work or similar. It’s about looking at the schools and seeing if realistically you’ll get in. You need to look at this document and see if all applicants were admitted, and if not, how far away the furthest admitted child lives from the school.

www.birmingham.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/10432/primary_schools_admission_arrangements_2020.pdf

Looking at those schools other than Moor Green they’re all oversubscribed and the cut off distances are less than 1400-1800 metres. So unless you’re less than a mile away, or your child is in one of the priority categories you need to start looking nearer to home

Come a bit further south (on university train line) and look at Blackwell First, St Andrews CE First. Tho beware not in catchment for Bham grammars.

Hi, thanks, everyone for the comments. I see I have written the wrong thing, apologies: I want a STATE school, but I am looking for the least competitive, I meant independent in that way, sorry. I would prefer to avoid private schools, but I don't want my kid exposed to a lot of stress. In any case, someone commented to forget about less competition in the private sector, so I see that would not be the alternative. I will add comments quoting messages. Thanks again!

@PotteringAlong

Do you mean private schools? Because, as above, you’ve not put independent schools on your list.

There are no completely secular schools in Britain. This comes up time after time on mumsnet, mainly from people whose children are just about to start school. We are a Christian country, we have a state religion. Therefore state schools are Christian. They may not be faith schools, but Christian nevertheless.

Thanks for the clarification, I did not know that.

What does that exactly mean? I have seen schools where they discuss the world's religions, that's great, but do they teach he Christian morals, and so on? I mean, in Spain there is also a state religion, but it is not present in any way for kids who opt out of the particular subject.

Thanks again!

I couldn't advise unless I knew where you lived. I'm nearby to some of those schools, but as someone said, you need to live really very close to them to get in.
Unless you're moving house to be near the one you choose, you can't possibly be in the catchment area of more than one of the ones you've mentioned.

@FlossieF

Also, I’m not sure about what it means to be in the spirit of a Forest School, but you should bear in mind that we have state grammar schools here, and competition for places at these and the excellent private secondary schools is fierce. This tends to dominate parental thinking at the upper end of primary school, especially in the private sector, and extra tuition for the secondary school places is rife. I suspect that this is not in the Forest School spirit!

Opting out of the competition is of course possible, but the quality of the non-selective secondary schools is highly variable, so to be fully relaxed about the move to secondary you need to live near one of the good non-selective secondary schools!

By Forest school I mean contact with nature, gardening, putting knowledge to practice in that way, but not once a week for 10 mins, I know most schools do this kind of activity, but they hardly ever give details about it, which may mean that a) it is completely standard, b) they don't really care and put it there because it looks nice.

Thanks for your help!

@kierenthecommunity

I don’t know anything about the schools as I’m not in Birmingham but I know a bit about the school application process. We have a big shortage of places in Leeds and I’ve got friends who’ve been very disappointed with their offers.

Despite being told otherwise you don’t really get a choice of school, especially if it’s to suit the area where you work or similar. It’s about looking at the schools and seeing if realistically you’ll get in. You need to look at this document and see if all applicants were admitted, and if not, how far away the furthest admitted child lives from the school.

www.birmingham.gov.uk/download/downloads/id/10432/primary_schools_admission_arrangements_2020.pdf

Looking at those schools other than Moor Green they’re all oversubscribed and the cut off distances are less than 1400-1800 metres. So unless you’re less than a mile away, or your child is in one of the priority categories you need to start looking nearer to home

Hi, thanks.

I am aware of the process, I live nowhere for now, I will move next September and plan on getting a flat close enough to one of the schools I like. I know it may be hard for some, so I leave a few options open :)

@maudspellbody

I couldn't advise unless I knew where you lived. I'm nearby to some of those schools, but as someone said, you need to live really very close to them to get in. Unless you're moving house to be near the one you choose, you can't possibly be in the catchment area of more than one of the ones you've mentioned.

Yes, I see I also forgot to mention that I don't live there yet, I am applying for 2021/22, so I planned to move close enough to the school I intend to get in this fall and hope for the best. But first I want to select the s school...

Ah. That makes sense. That gives you way more options.

There are lots of good schools around this area. As well as the ones you have mentioned, there is Stirchley, which is a lovely small school with a more villagey feel. Colmore is extremely popular, but is the opposite and much, much bigger. I think the ethos is more competitive than you might like.

Harborne is very middle class and may have more of an academically competitive edge too. Bournville is similar. Also, depending on the age of your children, Bournville has a separate infants and junior school and some parents find they love the ethos of one but not the other.

I think you would need to visit and get a feel.

I'm not sure that any have Forest school as an overall ethos. Moor Green is opposite a lot of parkland and forest, so I dare say they use the outdoors a lot.

My DD is at a different local school that hasn't been mentioned and it is a lovely school with a nicely inclusive ethos. They do Forest school, but only as an addition to the curriculum at various parts of the year.

I think I would have been happy with any of the local schools, actually. It's a nice place to live.

@maudspellbody

Ah. That makes sense. That gives you way more options.

There are lots of good schools around this area. As well as the ones you have mentioned, there is Stirchley, which is a lovely small school with a more villagey feel. Colmore is extremely popular, but is the opposite and much, much bigger. I think the ethos is more competitive than you might like.

Harborne is very middle class and may have more of an academically competitive edge too. Bournville is similar. Also, depending on the age of your children, Bournville has a separate infants and junior school and some parents find they love the ethos of one but not the other.

I think you would need to visit and get a feel.

I'm not sure that any have Forest school as an overall ethos. Moor Green is opposite a lot of parkland and forest, so I dare say they use the outdoors a lot.

My DD is at a different local school that hasn't been mentioned and it is a lovely school with a nicely inclusive ethos. They do Forest school, but only as an addition to the curriculum at various parts of the year.

I think I would have been happy with any of the local schools, actually. It's a nice place to live.

Many thanks! This is great info. So what's your daughter's school? If you don't mind me asking, and if you are happy :)

I also like small schools, they can pay more attention to students. This is a con in Harborne or Bournville Village, for example (or Moor green as a matter of fact).

Visiting may prove tricky with the current situation, unfortunately, but yes, I will try at least to get a feeling by walking around, if I can meet the staff and see the facilities, way better!

Not Harborne or Bournville but just down the road is Kings Norton Primary School. It does do some work with the local Parish Church for community ties but not denominational. On the forest school front though it does have a very well hidden at the back of the playground private forest garden full of trees and shrubs. The kids get forest school sessions from Reception and they organise PTA events for families to help clear leaves etc. We have seen a massive increase in new housing developments though so the catchment area I would assume has significantly decreased since my youngest started Reception 9 years ago.

are you definitely set against considering church schools, because you are cutting out 25% .

What does that exactly mean? I have seen schools where they discuss the world's religions, that's great, but do they teach he Christian morals, and so on?

@AnaPeon yes, they do. Some will do it in a bigger way than others, but their is a requirement for all schools to have collective Christian worship.

Streaming is almost unheard of so young. Final year of primary was the first time then went to different classes (they had tables for maths before that). Work out where you want to live, that will determine the school options

When are you moving? You need to be at the address before the cut off for applications to stand the best chance, varies by council but you would need a rental contract and registered for council tax usually before you can apply

You've picked out some of the most popular schools in the city with the exception perhaps of Moor Green l. The areas around them are all quite different too. Do you have time to spend a couple of days in Birmingham getting a feel for them?

The other you may like to have a look at is Kings Heath Primary

@QuacnChips

Not Harborne or Bournville but just down the road is Kings Norton Primary School. It does do some work with the local Parish Church for community ties but not denominational. On the forest school front though it does have a very well hidden at the back of the playground private forest garden full of trees and shrubs. The kids get forest school sessions from Reception and they organise PTA events for families to help clear leaves etc. We have seen a massive increase in new housing developments though so the catchment area I would assume has significantly decreased since my youngest started Reception 9 years ago.

Thanks, I took a look, it does look nice. Where can I verify the catchment areas and how they have varied in the past few years? I found a website (admissions day.co.uk) but they charge for that. Any free website?

@alexdgr8

are you definitely set against considering church schools, because you are cutting out 25% .

Yes, that's really not an option :)

@listsandbudgets

You've picked out some of the most popular schools in the city with the exception perhaps of Moor Green l. The areas around them are all quite different too. Do you have time to spend a couple of days in Birmingham getting a feel for them?

The other you may like to have a look at is Kings Heath Primary

Yes, you are right. I am just looking way in advance. My idea is to have a manageable list to visit in September (or at least wander around to get a feeling), move in Nov/December close enough, and apply in January.

I will look into Kings Heath Primary :) Thanks

My children go to Moor Green. It is a fantastic school with a very green ethos. They have a forest area on the grounds and a lot of green spaces around the school. They have a dedicated full time forest school teacher. They also have animals that the children visit on a regular basis and many parents who volunteer to look after them (chickens, rabbits, peacocks/peahens), snakes , guinea pigs etc etc) there are also gates that lead straight off the junior playground where they have their own allotment. They also have a full time sports coach. The school went through a few rocky years and when my first child started and it was in special measures but we saw the potential, reasoned it's in a nice area on a nice road and it is now Ofsted Outstanding. Unfortunately (or fortunately for the school) news travels fast and this year it had a catchment for the first time (went 1000m) the catchment for this year hasn't been officially publsihed. Academically the results are really good and are rising all the time. My children are happy there and the staff are approachable and friendly. Perhaps the only thing I'd say is that on the journey to outstanding most of the staff changed so it's a fairly new team, there aren't those core mature members of staff who have been there year and years which I think add depth to a school. They are however very keen on employing local teachers who have a vested interest in the area. Moor Green is a 2 form entry.
Harborne school is where my friend's children go. It's a very middle class cohort with a tiny catchment. The school itself seems to have been very well run for a very long time. They have a wealth of experience and are very organised and achieve good results. Her children are extremely happy there. The downsides are that it's now a 4 form entry I believe and is an old Victorian building with not a great amount of outdoor space.
Tiverton is a lovely one form school and I really liked it when I looked round, the staff were so down to earth and approachable. However, it is bang smack in the middle of Selly Oak student territory so the street it's on is a bit grim and if you needed to park it would be really difficult to find a space.
Bournville I've never been inside but again it's highly sought after because of its location (a nice villagey setting) and it's quaint and gets really good results I believe. I think they have a strict catchment area though.
Erm think that's about it.

@Tappetytap

My children go to Moor Green. It is a fantastic school with a very green ethos. They have a forest area on the grounds and a lot of green spaces around the school. They have a dedicated full time forest school teacher. They also have animals that the children visit on a regular basis and many parents who volunteer to look after them (chickens, rabbits, peacocks/peahens), snakes , guinea pigs etc etc) there are also gates that lead straight off the junior playground where they have their own allotment. They also have a full time sports coach. The school went through a few rocky years and when my first child started and it was in special measures but we saw the potential, reasoned it's in a nice area on a nice road and it is now Ofsted Outstanding. Unfortunately (or fortunately for the school) news travels fast and this year it had a catchment for the first time (went 1000m) the catchment for this year hasn't been officially publsihed. Academically the results are really good and are rising all the time. My children are happy there and the staff are approachable and friendly. Perhaps the only thing I'd say is that on the journey to outstanding most of the staff changed so it's a fairly new team, there aren't those core mature members of staff who have been there year and years which I think add depth to a school. They are however very keen on employing local teachers who have a vested interest in the area. Moor Green is a 2 form entry. Harborne school is where my friend's children go. It's a very middle class cohort with a tiny catchment. The school itself seems to have been very well run for a very long time. They have a wealth of experience and are very organised and achieve good results. Her children are extremely happy there. The downsides are that it's now a 4 form entry I believe and is an old Victorian building with not a great amount of outdoor space. Tiverton is a lovely one form school and I really liked it when I looked round, the staff were so down to earth and approachable. However, it is bang smack in the middle of Selly Oak student territory so the street it's on is a bit grim and if you needed to park it would be really difficult to find a space. Bournville I've never been inside but again it's highly sought after because of its location (a nice villagey setting) and it's quaint and gets really good results I believe. I think they have a strict catchment area though. Erm think that's about it.

Many thanks! This is extremely useful and detailed. I am sorry to read that Moor Green is getting hard to get in...What does it mean a two form school? Double application process? Or what? I had more or less decided on this one, now it seems I may have to battle to get in :(

As a backup, I am considering independent schools (for real, even private) but I'd like one where contact with nature is a priority. Do you know of any not to far? There's a Montessori and a Waldorf school, but they are extremely far from town...

Thanks again!

Two form entry just means two classes per year. It means they can offer 60 children a place - going by 30 per class.
(4 form means 4 × 30 so 120 places)
You don't need to apply more than once.