AIBU to think it is ok for our family to use public funded childcare facilities targeted at more disadvantaged families than ours?

[tigermoth]

I live in an area of SE London where there's a high level of poverty and crime. There is also a lot of public funding going into services to help ease the burden on families - ie over 20 new children's centres have opened here offering a range of parenting and children's courses, affordable full time nursery places and creche facilities for parents and young children. There is also investment in children's adventure playgrounds where you can leave older children under the supervision of playworkers.

We are a relatively comfortably off, relatively stable family. Our children are too old for us make use the children's centres, but I will be taking my youngest son, age 8, to the brand new adventure playground tomorrow, with a view to leaving him there for a couple of hours.

Yet really, this adventure playground is not designed for parents like me who fancy a few childfree hours. It is designed to give children who come from less stable backgrounds a place to play safely.

I have also read in the newspaper that children's centres, nationally, are not fulfilling their brief to help families in the hard to reach, poorest, most disadvantaged sectors of the community. The funding is there, the staff are there, but it is often middle class parents who have cottoned on to the fact that these new facilities exist. Some children's centre, in an effort to make use of their funding are offering pilates classes and the like.

Which made me think. Is it right for our familiy to use funded family facilities that are open to us, but are are not really targetted at us?

Thanks for answering my question so eloquently newnamenewlife. I do see what you are getting about the Surestart's child centered approach. And child centred should mean class free.

I know this partly a funding issue, but while child centres are concentrated in areas with high levels of poverty or social problems, isn't the ambition of separate them from the class issue is doomed to failure? If, say, you had surestart centres even near the most affluent commuterland towns then it would be easier to push the classlessness of them?

yes, yes yes and yes. NOt only is it ehtical, but it goes to the root of what it is all trying to achieve - cohesion, children mixing with all kinds of other children, from otehr classes, backgrounds etc, if those facilities become the preserve of the most disadvantaged, this would be to counter all of the potential good that can come of their existence in the first place.
No, your ds need sto go along and i hope he has a brilliant time!

inmyhumbleopinion - your experiences might highlight why some parents avoid these schemes at all costs. As I said, I have no direct experience of them.

Do you feel the same aversion to joining NCT classes or any other mother and baby groups?

I say this because when I had my son, I violently avoided going to any such groups as, like you say, I was really against the idea of being monitored or feeling I had to comform to the group's idea of how I should behave.

There were no surestart schemes around at that time, but I think I might not have been keen to go.

(However, the prospect of one or two hours of free creche facilities would have been a big attraction for me ).

Interesting question sparks interesting debate
I'm a Greenwichite too blueshoes but in my part of the borough (lower-middle class monoculture, a world away from the well-funded and attention-grabbing waterfront ) we certainly don't have anything like SureStart, and round here it's sorely needed. We don't actually have ANYTHING running for mothers/carers and babies here at all right now. Even a drop-in coffee session...

Marina, hello (so many Greenwich people on one thread!). I wonder if that service centre opening 'in a high street near you' will have much on offer for youeng families? I haven't looked at the location of the 20 or so new children's centres in the borough, but what a shame there are none near you.

I have high hopes of that centre too tigermoth. I expect there's something up on MP Estate where there is a definite need for community facilities, and I expect something operates out of the school on the AH estate up near the park.
But nothing in NE itself
I think there is an assumption that we just go to Bexley or Bromley

I know that the centre will have a creche - it's a start, I suppose, though I am sure there will be strict rules against leaving the site and going off for a shopping frenzy in the high street .

Must dash!

IMHO I agree re:the stigma point to some extent - my HV almost managed to put me off Surestart for life by suggesting I go to Surestart as there would be a nursery nurse around to help with what I was doing wrong with DS and I would be able to meet other struggling mothers . When I actually did turn up to stuff there, the staff and other ladies there were 99% of the time absolutely fine, uncondescending etc.

PEACHY - back in the day when DS was little, I was told that although I was strictly speaking outside the Surestart catchment area (living in City centre meant just missed several boundaries!!!), if anyone objected to me going to stuff (which nobody did!), then HV could refer you to Surestart(there was some quota like 10% of users could be referred by HV from out of area).

I read the news articles about the surestart centres and also thought it was interesting. I have been to surestart funded baby groups in two different areas despite not being part of the 'target-group'. I was given the impression by the people who ran these centres that they wanted to encourage people of any background to come along, the idea being that Mum's could help each other and share advice (if that doesn't sound too patronising). I never thought to feel guilty for attending and in fact in one group I felt guilty if I didn't go along as the organiser made it quite clear that the scheme needed support to ensure continued funding.

I'm now part of a steering group involved in building a new Children's Centre nearby. I have to admit that I am disillusioned to a certain extent with the idea of it actually serving the purpose for which it is funded. It does seem that in general the parents who truly need the most help are the last people who will look for it from 'the system'.

hairytoe you might be surprised- you get two groups of mums who need support imo (irrelevant of class etc)- one group is virtually unreachable, they never go out unless you are due to visit them at home; don't rspond to letters etc- at some point, unless thre's suspicion of child protection issues, you have to just tlet them be. On the flip side however thereare those you will now by the sound of their voice over the phone in weeks! They'll always be around, take you up on every offer- quite often you wonder if they need so much support and then they'll tell you their story and your heart will break 9we ahd a few of these famillies). These are the ones you can really change things for.

In the middle are lots of people, some who won't need things but will still benefit from them; others who will see like they don't need anything but in fact really do need help- quite often these are the group who are victims of domestic violence, or about to lose their home, or whatever.

And the thing is- you simply cannot tell who is who unless they choose to let you in (or not, with group 1).

There are lots of familie I can think of that we couldn't help- where we tried but were rejected at every turn, or help was aceepted but Mum couldn't organise herselgf enough to make use of it. These are the sad cases. Conversely though are all the famillies we did help- half of them i'll never even know what or how much we did for them, sometimes its just offering (thinking of one large family palced close by as a rescued DV victim family knowing nobody). Its when you're out there offering, and peole see the se3rvices that these palces offer- it helps restore confidence in the fact there are nice people out there, or so she told me. That makes it all worth it

in our area you can't use the surestart facilities unless you are in a surestart area. this really pisses me off because i think it should go on your income. just because i live 5 mins down the road in a slightly nicer area doesn't mean i have bags of money. there is a nice girl just down the road from me who is in the same situation. she rents privately but it is paid with housing benefit. she and i are financially in the same situation as the parent in these sure start areas but because we don't live in what is said to be a disadvantaged area we can't get help.