AIBU to think it is ok for our family to use public funded childcare facilities targeted at more disadvantaged families than ours?

[tigermoth]

I live in an area of SE London where there's a high level of poverty and crime. There is also a lot of public funding going into services to help ease the burden on families - ie over 20 new children's centres have opened here offering a range of parenting and children's courses, affordable full time nursery places and creche facilities for parents and young children. There is also investment in children's adventure playgrounds where you can leave older children under the supervision of playworkers.

We are a relatively comfortably off, relatively stable family. Our children are too old for us make use the children's centres, but I will be taking my youngest son, age 8, to the brand new adventure playground tomorrow, with a view to leaving him there for a couple of hours.

Yet really, this adventure playground is not designed for parents like me who fancy a few childfree hours. It is designed to give children who come from less stable backgrounds a place to play safely.

I have also read in the newspaper that children's centres, nationally, are not fulfilling their brief to help families in the hard to reach, poorest, most disadvantaged sectors of the community. The funding is there, the staff are there, but it is often middle class parents who have cottoned on to the fact that these new facilities exist. Some children's centre, in an effort to make use of their funding are offering pilates classes and the like.

Which made me think. Is it right for our familiy to use funded family facilities that are open to us, but are are not really targetted at us?

The adventure playgrounds are supervised by playworkers from a health and safety point of view (ie they are not as closely supervised as a school playgrounde). They are free of charge. I could, in theory, leave ds2 there all day. Apparently some parents use adventure playgrounds as free childcare in the school holidays while they are at work.

hotcrumpets, your post bears out what I have read in the newspaper. I did not know if what I read was really happening but in your area at least, it seems so.

They also seem to be very local. I dropped into one about 3 miles from me because I happened to be shopping there and I was visiting my mum who still lives there and when I enquired about a toddler grp they asked where I lived and said I would be better going to my local one (about 1 mile away) as they have to target theri local audience. It seemed a bit mad to me.

Xenia - you dont 'alf talk some crap sometimes !

i suppose they could make them free to more dis-advantaged children. but would they come?

i'm doing playwork nvq. there has been tons of money spent on changing/improving things. i wonder sometimes if it's really been thought out properly.

i'm going to ask my assessor about your comment tigermoth that parents are using it as unpaid childcare. though as i said earlier maybe more 'richer' children are the ones that could benefit more from the 'rough and tumble' aspect of it.

I do feel that I shouldn't really be using them even though I am in the area they are targetted at. I just couldn't believe the brilliant groups they had on for only £1.

But like I said seems a shame for them to sit empty.

se, I don't think they would come. Our centre has been opened for well over a year, is heavily advertised and it is still not used by the target groups.

I took DS to get weighed there the other day, I was the only one in 2 HOURS, the HV said they are only going to carry on running until the end of the month and then stop as nobody is using it.

I keep going to parenting classes aimed at disadvantaged parents.

Have stopped going now as am embarrassed to be constantly ont hose courses.

But i was never taking a place from someone who needed it, most of the people who went were already positive parenting, little angels, how to talk so kids will listen etc. afficionados.

Getting the right people to go is a major challenge.

We even have cooking courses at ours, 'How to cook healthy, on a budget etc'

Nobody who should be going does, they even have a free creche

it does seem like the government haven't listened to actual workers before committing so much money to these things.

interesting posts. I think the point about ghettoising services is a valid one. You're part of the local community and integration through use of an adventure playground can only be a good thing - if you;re not taking a place then really I can;t see what the downside is.

YANBU. For the reasons stated by LittleBella. These days I feel more comfortable going to groups etc run by the Children's Centre than by other private bodies because of DS big speech problems (which affect his social interaction).

YANBU.
We have the same in my area of the NW. (North west England that is not london!), from my first baby being born and continued into the 2nd one and still now with them nearly 3 and 16m, we use all the facilities.
At all the groups and things we go to, the other mums are mostly like me - mature, educated, not badly off.
I have made so many wonderful friends from my use of the children's centres!
Sadly the professionals that run these places say that mums like me are more likely to use the facilities than the people they are aimed at who just don't 'get it' that these facilities are great.
The children's centres can only do so much to help the people they are aimed at - but they can't drag em in off the streets or from in front of their tellys can they?

What an interesting thread. I have used the the local(ish) sure start centre, but again am not sure whether i should, and a lot of the women there seemed to be from outside the target area (like me). there did seem to be a nice social and racial mix though, which is good.

I'm also doing a baby massage course which is offered to all mums in our area, but the uptake seems to be from the more affluent end of the district.

I think services can be provided, but you can't make people use them, and as others have said, if you didn't use them, then perhaps they would be forced to close. I'm also pretty sure that the organisers would let you know if they thought you shouldn't be there.

hotcrumpets, how sad that your local children's centre might have to close some of its facilities through lack of interest

I just don't know what the answer is - spend more money on a massive advertising campaign to get more local people using the facilities or just accept that people cannot be nannied into using these places.

If your child is not sufficiently active to prevent health problems in the future (as so many "middle class" kids are not then I think the facility IS aimed at you!

Xenia, I am not at all sure that parents who pay for private education do so mainly for 'the good of the country' . Not as a main reason anyway.

But you may have a point - I can see the parallel you draw with parents who can afford private education but choose to take advantage of free state education.

But is it wrong?

I live in a sure start area and use one group regularly. I noticed straight away that there were more older mums there than you would expect. I also felt a bit out of place (although money is a bit tight - that's because I'm studying and we're not really hard up) - but then I ran into one of the other mums picking up her toddler from the same quite expensive nursery dd goes to. It seems that it is the slightly better off, more involved, older mums (and one dad) who go. I see a lot of younger mums in the area -but not at these groups. Shame - the groups are well organised and kitted out and the staff are very nice.

That's a good point, DarthVadar.

Our local adventure playground is floodlit on winter evenings, up to 8.00 pm, so as long as it is dry, children can still go to a playground after school rather than collapsing on the sofa in front of the TV..

But I have never seen any publicity highlighting this benefit of adventure playgrounds, as such.

I also think it's important that concerned parents don't pull out of the state school system. They need to be involved and proactive - for the good of the nation.

we have a new CC here, all done out beautifully, we are not a particularly down trodden area, but there is the usual mix, of middle class and social housing families, and yes most the time it is used by the middle class and childminders.

I know quite a few of the less well off single mums, (I used to be one, and DGD mother is def one).

Have asked her to come along, (she has two boys a lot younger that DGD) who she struggles to cope with at times, a partner that knocks her about, and little money.
It would be ideal for her to get a break and some help.

But she wont go, I have begged, pleaded, said I will collect her and bring her back, but no joy.

She wont give a reason, most the time she says OK, ill go, get myself there, then dosnt turn up.

They did lots of days out during the summer, just £2.00 per family, they never went, neither did any of her friends n the same sort of situation. None can give me a reason, apart from

I cant be bothered.

Maybe that is why the CC are filled with the middle class.

It is really so sad, becuse the children that relly need it are missing out.

if you live it the area, use it. your child has the right to take part in activities held in his community.

the title reminds me that many college courses are targetted for less educated people to continue their education but on some of those courses the majority of people on them already had a 'good' education. if they didn't fill up the courses, the funding would dry up.

I have one coming near me next year. I didnt really know what it was about tbh but I can see why the 'targetted' groups dont go. They probabnly just see it as more inteference from the authorities (even though that clearly isnt the intention).

I am not in the target group but would send my DD for 3 reasons.

1 - she gets to mix with a wider circle of children than the is used to (although her pre-school is in same said area and it has been good for her tbh)
2 - i would rather support the scheme than see it close down.
3 - if it saves you money and isnt oversubscribed then you'd be mad not to.

shoshable, that is so sad, when so much is on offer.

I have do direct experience of these children's centres, as my children are too old, but I did read that there are social workers on duty. Is this putting off some families I wonder? Do you think parents fear the risk of interference and being 'in the system'?

tigermoth, your right it is sad.

There is no social workers at ours just a lovely welcoming team.

They seem to have no ambition for their children, most had the children, pre 16, and have no ambition for themselves, the ones I am thinking of, have never really worked, have abusive partners etc. They could get so much out of it.