AIBU to think it is ok for our family to use public funded childcare facilities targeted at more disadvantaged families than ours?

[tigermoth]

I live in an area of SE London where there's a high level of poverty and crime. There is also a lot of public funding going into services to help ease the burden on families - ie over 20 new children's centres have opened here offering a range of parenting and children's courses, affordable full time nursery places and creche facilities for parents and young children. There is also investment in children's adventure playgrounds where you can leave older children under the supervision of playworkers.

We are a relatively comfortably off, relatively stable family. Our children are too old for us make use the children's centres, but I will be taking my youngest son, age 8, to the brand new adventure playground tomorrow, with a view to leaving him there for a couple of hours.

Yet really, this adventure playground is not designed for parents like me who fancy a few childfree hours. It is designed to give children who come from less stable backgrounds a place to play safely.

I have also read in the newspaper that children's centres, nationally, are not fulfilling their brief to help families in the hard to reach, poorest, most disadvantaged sectors of the community. The funding is there, the staff are there, but it is often middle class parents who have cottoned on to the fact that these new facilities exist. Some children's centre, in an effort to make use of their funding are offering pilates classes and the like.

Which made me think. Is it right for our familiy to use funded family facilities that are open to us, but are are not really targetted at us?

Well I am glad that no matter how disadvantaged my child is, he will be surrounded by other people's children adding positively to his social mix

Is smugness still positive?

Inverted snobbery is negative, IMHO

I'm a middle class mother who makes extensive use of Sure Start facilities but I can well understand why some of the most disadvantaged in our society are not keen to use them. There is one centre in particular where staff watch over you as you play woth your child, literally standing feet away and staring for ages without saying anything. I'm a pretty confident mother and person but even I find it disconcerting as I feel like I'm being monitored.

I've wondered that from time to time. When the surestart lady came to see me after DS#2 was born and handed me leaflets about bfing (as I was bfing DS in front of here ),parenting classes and cooking classes, I was a bit condescending I must admit . 'oh I don't think I need those do you?' Or words to that effect >>

But I made no bones about using the subsidised nursery at the childrens' centre. Actually we are struggling financially but I guess it's all relative. It was a lovely nursery though so don't feel too bad.

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IMHO, how do you know that a lot of the target group feel this way ?

I'm part of the target group and so are my friends and neighbours. Myself on quite a lot of levels.

am late to this thread but it's intruiging

I have been hyper-aware of this debate since I, as a DINKY young professional living in a mixed area of London, went to what was advertised as a drop-in family planning clinic session at the local health centre to get a repeat prescription for the pill - it was conventiently after work and on my way home.
I got my scrip and was politely told that in future I should go to the GP as the clinic wasn't appropriate for my needs.

But then they did have limited time and resources and by the time I left they were queueing out the door. I still feel guilty about the 14yo who might not have got her MAP because I was wasting the doctor's time.

Makes me edgy about the whole thing.

Harman,
I don't think people mean to sound smug or superior.

It's quite a difficult concept to articulate. I think the important point is that Surestart services should be universal and with no stigma attached if you use them. This is far more likely to happen if there is a diverse mix of families using the services. There are some really good initiatives going on that everyone can benefit from. However if people percieve them as places you get spied on and patronised then they won't go. This is far less likey to happen if all families in the community are encouraged to use them, not just families under considerable stress due to illness, unemployment, family breakdown,low income, asylum seekers, cycle of disadvantage, the list is endless.

I go to a council playgroup where one of the workers can be rude and patronising. The building is also rundown and depressing. I used to work for the council and have been able to use my working knowledge of such services to challenge what is happening at this play group and hopefully to make improvements. I think it helps these services to have parents who are not afraid to challenge practices attend the groups. If you had been referred by social services it may be very difficult to challenge.

I hope that doesn't sound patronising.

I suppose our family unit would be classed as middle class.

Yet I have no worries about using the Sure Start centres, as we have little money for child related activities. As I'm now a SAHM and don't see why any other child would be more deserving than my child in enjoying these groups.

Though I don't go as much as I would like, as I often don't have the bus fare to get there. So I am awaiting a new centre to open which will be within a 30 minute walk...hurrah

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Yes Fio, Children and their families. One of the core aims of Surestart is to provide family support. Children's centres are part of Surestart.

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that's my point, Fio, it's the disadvantaged people who don'#t want to use the services, it's like admitting you didn't feather the nest properly before you laid your eggs. I HATE and DETEST the thought that someone has taken a look at my life and decided it's just not good enough, and I should go to a children's centre to 'mix'.

My HV got quite frantic when she realised she couldn't bully me into going - because she knew that unless I went, nobody would be keeping an eye on my parenting. Being depressed, single, fertile, young and poor doesn't make you emotionally insensitive or unintelligent, and there is an atmosphere of condescention from some of the people (staff and other parents) that makes attending them almost unbearable.

I actually still go to my local one, because ds2 loves it, but I am quite brazen about doing what I want to do - some other people are not. There is a MASSIVE stigma attached, I overheard one woman comment "I'm not going there, I'm more fit to work there!"

Sums it up really.

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Can't see a problem with it myself. We are not totally strapped but do have to watch the budget and suppose could be labelled as 'middle class'. I live in a small rural town where there is not a lot of choice in children's resources so If all these centres and facilities are aimed at 'those less fortunate than me' what is there for me and the rest? I still have as much of a problem entertaining and getting information re the kids as the next person. Am more than happy to contribute where it is required

Now, the funding criteria for Surestart ahs cahnges somewhat I know (I was on a pilot scheme) and is mroe universalty available anyhow- bt some of us have slightly older kids- money wasn't handed out to 'people whoa re poor' or 'people who are single', it was allocated to geographical areas with huge lists of qualifying criteria- income was one, so was birth weight (that would have been me then, Miss!), availablility of local resources 9so soem rurala reas were funded despite being fairly 'affluent'- loads of our HS mums came from villages becasue theyc an just be so isolating esp, if you don't drive- income and aprenting capacity irrelevant)

So, frankly if surestart isa vailable to you then youa re, although I dislike the phrase, 'entitled'.

As it so happens we're not in this village I live in now- hate that! We're on a liveable wage (most epole here fairly affluent) but have 2 children with SN, I've ahd pretty severe depression over the alst year or so related I think to the Sn, we're isolated, etc etc. I'd love access to surestart facillities, but we lose out because the village doesn't qualify

tigermoth, I also live in SE London which has a mix of middleclass and low income, Greenwich as it turns out. I only attended one SureStart activity (advertised to me through the post) - Baby Massage which was so popular I was put on a wait list.

When I finally got on, it was dominated by middleclass mums by a ratio of 4:1, making the lower income mums (I can only guess from their accent) a bit awkward.

I think in this situation, the motivation and appetite of middle-class mums for this activity must have bumped off others from the target group.

I thought Surestart aims to be flexible in meeting the needs/demands of each community.

Blueshoes, your local Surestart should have responded by putting on extra baby massage classes. Baby massage isn't everybody's cup of tea, but everyone should have the opportunity to try it.