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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

Original poster

Why are nursing jobs hard to fill?

142 replies

SquishyBones · 14/07/2020 13:59

Was watching the news earlier and they were saying that they predict a lot of nurses will quit the profession once the covid lark is over. Considering we already had a nurse shortage before covid ... this could be disastrous.

I mean, nursing is one of the only professions where you’re practically guaranteed a job for life. I could quit my job tomorrow and find another within weeks. At one time, I had 3 successful job interviews and could choose which one to go for. In the community, our place is constantly advertising for band 5s but half the applicants don’t even turn up for the interview and those that do get the job and quit within months.

I remember once I landed what I considered to be an amazing, perfect job. I felt very special ... until I was told that I was the only one who applied for it 😂 I totally cocked up the interview too, I even got the name of the company wrong (called it NHS but it was actually a different company) and I hadn’t even researched what services they offer! So when they asked me I outright said “I don’t know”. Yet I got the job as they were desperate. But why is this the case?

5 years post qualifying I don’t like nursing and I don’t intend to keep doing it. The pay is shit, you are treated like shit, pay to park at work, pay for your registration every year, Constant training, constant pressure, expected to be a robot with no personal life ....

The final straw came for me when a patient ranted at me that I was selfish working part time when the NHS is in such dire need of nurses. He said I was putting myself before my patients. I corrected him and said it wasn’t for my benefit as such ... more for my dog that I don’t want to leave alone for long periods. He was fuming.

AIBU to thinking nursing and healthcare in general need to do something drastic now to shake up the system to make people actually WANT to “nurse”?

OP posts:
poppydull · 14/07/2020 19:28

Surely, salaries for nurses and teachers are public knowledge, just like for other public servants.

And?

poppydull · 14/07/2020 19:31

Take teachers for example I can look up the pay scale but that's not a reflection on what my friend actually earns as they have a TRL & a S26 which is about another 10k on top of their basic. I have a relative in the police force, who works a lot of over time again not reflected in the tables.

poppydull · 14/07/2020 19:33

Plus 50k might be considered a low salary by some

Systemrelevant · 14/07/2020 19:34

I left after 15 years.

15 years of being talked to like crap by managers
15 years of being told to discharge people who were still unwell, because they had been unwell for too long
15 years of being assaulted ... even walked past by a manager while a patient held a knife to my face
15 years of constant talk and sight of death
15 years of failing every appraisal because I cared about the patients more than the figures

I got suspended after a patient lied about me, was sent home with no explanation for three days and not asked my side of the story for over a month. I resigned.

Mokoblack · 14/07/2020 19:39

This thread is great, I’m a nurse and thinking of leaving after 3 years qualified. Those of you who are leaving/left what are you doing?

caroloro · 14/07/2020 19:48

I think all essential jobs requiring university degrees should be funded fully, on the understanding that you work for such and such an amount of time (e. g. Equivalent of five years full time, so more years if part time to make it up to the same as it would be). You'd get a far wider range of applicants and encourage diversity.

Gwenhwyfar · 14/07/2020 20:03

@poppydull

Surely, salaries for nurses and teachers are public knowledge, just like for other public servants.

And?

And, so I don't understand why the poster is confused.
poppydull · 14/07/2020 20:09

@Gwenhwyfar I just explained why...

FluffyKittensinabasket · 14/07/2020 20:29

Paying back the training costs is an interesting one if you leave within 5 / 10 years.

As a student nurse, I worked for free for over 2300 hours, mainly being used as an unpaid HCA.

I don’t think forcing people to stay in a job like nursing when they are only doing it to save paying back fees is the best idea.

How would medical conditions be managed? Stress, depression, manual handling injuries. A nurse is depressed (because of the job) and wants to quit for example.

1FootInTheRave · 14/07/2020 21:08

I am a midwife (was previously a nurse too) and handed my notice in 3 weeks ago. I feel utter relief.

The workload is ludicrous and I am completely burnt out.

Darkestseasonofall · 14/07/2020 21:29

A huge thing for me was the lack of flexibility in the NHS, especially on the wards.

I had "family friendly working" agreed, but it was never stuck to. So I left after 6 months, I was paying for childcare on my days off and had no childcare for my working days. The ward manager just shrugged.

I now have a fab part time job in another team working set days each week. It's really hard to keep good nurses on wards, and I think the off duty is a huge part of that.

Brieminewine · 14/07/2020 21:38

@Toddlerteaplease why are the trained not supportive of it? I can’t think why that would be!

Potatobug · 14/07/2020 21:48

Some people here are suggesting that training to be a nurse should be free.
But I thought it was free already, and on top of it you get a weekly bursary? Correct me if I’m wrong.

HoppingPavlova · 14/07/2020 21:48

Night shifts are bad for your health, hardly utopia. For the childless I don't see any benefit to working weekends and just not having a social life.

Of course if you are childless, then why on earth would you want to work night shifts, weekends and public hols. But if you do have young children it can be utopia in a logistical sense as it negates the need for care, running around for drop offs, pick ups etc (again, as long as partner is in a traditional 9-5 role). I did it until my kids were at school. I had a colleague who preferred to keep going until her kids finished the primary age to avoid before/after school care logistical drama, although once they started school she dropped weekends and just picked up all nights. One of my relatives was a nurse. They worked weekends only when their kids were young, husband home to look after kids, the extra money was needed, it was not uncommon.

BlessYourCottonSocks · 14/07/2020 21:59

@Potatobug

Some people here are suggesting that training to be a nurse should be free. But I thought it was free already, and on top of it you get a weekly bursary? Correct me if I’m wrong.
You're wrong.

My daughter has just qualified as a nurse.

She paid £9250 per year for the three years she trained. On top of this she had to borrow loans to pay for her accommodation, bills and food. She worked for free on the wards throughout these three years. It's a piss take.

She has now been nursing through the Covid pandemic, for the first time earning money for the job she does. She is currently about £50,000 in debt (student loans) that she needs to pay back.

1FootInTheRave · 14/07/2020 22:00

Potato, hasn't been free for a few years. Bursary was done away with and uni fees payable.

cheesersqueezer · 14/07/2020 22:22

I have been a nurse for 30 years. The first 10 years were in the NHS and I have worked in the private sector since. My decision to leave was finalised when a manager (also a nurse) questioned my ability to ‘prioritise’ and ‘utilise my available nursing assistant’, when I contacted her for help and support with a clinically dangerous situation, i.e. too many seriously ill patients and only me and a newly qualified nurse to care for them. It is frightening to have such great responsibility with so little support. There is little ‘pulling together’ in the NHS in my experience. I too felt I had ‘done my bit’- ten years of my youth, working nights and weekends, missing out on a lot of things. In my current job, I feel respected by my colleagues, managers and employer. Never felt that in the NHS. Now, when I meet friends who still work in the NHS, we spend the first hour talking about how shite their ‘off duty’ is. Controlling
Nurse Managers, who have huge influence over their family time, childcare arrangements etc etc, all for a Band 5 salary with 30 years nursing experience. Very glad I left.

Itsallpointless · 14/07/2020 22:22

Management is crap, in many many departments in the NHS.

My DD is a nurse, she's been incredibly lucky, top London hospital and great support. However, that is not the norm. She nearly quit on some of her placements, due ENTIRELY to bad management.

The NHS is a bloody farce, in fact any public office is a farceHmm

Nurses are paid badly, very badly indeed, that's probably the main reason for lack of retention in the field, that and the pathetic excuse of 'managers'Sad

Itsallpointless · 14/07/2020 22:22

And I also work for the NHS

WitchesGlove · 14/07/2020 22:23

@squeekums

I'm unemployed and live in an area screaming out for nurses in Aus. It's literally the only job ads most weeks locally. My employment agency has offered the entry courses in and they government funded. I would NEVER become a nurse. I'm not overly caring for strangers, crap hours, I'm too squeamish and a needle phobia, too high risk of assault. It's simply not a job I'd be suited too at all. It's something you gotta really love I feel, not just get into cos you get the right scores in education type thing
How much do they earn in Aus?
TheGoogleMum · 14/07/2020 22:25

Yes too hard a job for too little reward. Of course nobody goes into it for the money but even so it is underpaid. I think they should go back to no uni fees for allied health profession degrees (I'm one but not a nurse, I did it in the free days though). The uni experience is very different for health care degrees compared to other subjects. Nearly every day was a full day of lectures and then full time work placements unpaid too. Its pretty tough!

Popc0rn · 14/07/2020 22:45

@Potatobug

The Tories did away with the bursary and introduced fees for NHS courses in 2016. I qualified a couple of years before this and I got my fees paid and just under £400 a month for the bursary, as I had already lived away from home for over three years I was classed as an "independent student". My friends who hadn't lived away from home for at least 3 years weren't classed as independent students and got about £80 a month for their bursary. We pretty much all worked zero hours contracts as nursing assistants while training, gave us the flexibility to do more shifts while at uni, and less while at placement.

Right now it's £27,000 in fees with no help towards living costs. In September they are bringing back the bursary (that they stopped 4 years ago) for nursing and I think midwifery, but fees are staying.

Ponddering · 14/07/2020 22:50

[quote Popc0rn]@Potatobug

The Tories did away with the bursary and introduced fees for NHS courses in 2016. I qualified a couple of years before this and I got my fees paid and just under £400 a month for the bursary, as I had already lived away from home for over three years I was classed as an "independent student". My friends who hadn't lived away from home for at least 3 years weren't classed as independent students and got about £80 a month for their bursary. We pretty much all worked zero hours contracts as nursing assistants while training, gave us the flexibility to do more shifts while at uni, and less while at placement.

Right now it's £27,000 in fees with no help towards living costs. In September they are bringing back the bursary (that they stopped 4 years ago) for nursing and I think midwifery, but fees are staying.[/quote]
Fees were introduced for allied health courses in 2017. These students are graduating now, meaning that the 2017-2020 cohort are the ONLY cohort to have received absolutely no additional support other than the student loan.

Those before them did, and those after them, will.

Ponddering · 14/07/2020 22:51

Also, "right now it's £27,000 in fees with no help towards living costs" isn't right. Yes, the fees are 27k but students can also get loans of up to approx 9k per year towards living costs.

rosiejaune · 14/07/2020 22:52

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

I do object to people who've received government training bursaries working part time, long term.

I think anyone who has received any sort of government training bursary or fee waiver, should be required to work full time for a minimum of 10 years post qualifying, prepay the bursary on a pro-rate basis. I would suggest that for periods of maternity/parental leave we should "pause the clock" on the 10 years.

So anyone with caring responsibilities, disabilities that make working full time difficult or impossible, or who simply wants a reasonable work-life balance, need not apply?

You know all higher education used to be free. And you even got a grant. Because educated/trained people were considered to be an asset to society, regardless of how much they are being paid for their work afterwards (or even at all).

Think how many women care for relatives for free, saving the state money. Some of them might even have trained as nurses.

And pausing the clock would be discriminatory. Maternity leave counts as work, for good reason.