Why are nursing jobs hard to fill?

[SquishyBones]

Was watching the news earlier and they were saying that they predict a lot of nurses will quit the profession once the covid lark is over. Considering we already had a nurse shortage before covid ... this could be disastrous.

I mean, nursing is one of the only professions where you’re practically guaranteed a job for life. I could quit my job tomorrow and find another within weeks. At one time, I had 3 successful job interviews and could choose which one to go for. In the community, our place is constantly advertising for band 5s but half the applicants don’t even turn up for the interview and those that do get the job and quit within months.

I remember once I landed what I considered to be an amazing, perfect job. I felt very special ... until I was told that I was the only one who applied for it 😂 I totally cocked up the interview too, I even got the name of the company wrong (called it NHS but it was actually a different company) and I hadn’t even researched what services they offer! So when they asked me I outright said “I don’t know”. Yet I got the job as they were desperate. But why is this the case?

5 years post qualifying I don’t like nursing and I don’t intend to keep doing it. The pay is shit, you are treated like shit, pay to park at work, pay for your registration every year, Constant training, constant pressure, expected to be a robot with no personal life ....

The final straw came for me when a patient ranted at me that I was selfish working part time when the NHS is in such dire need of nurses. He said I was putting myself before my patients. I corrected him and said it wasn’t for my benefit as such ... more for my dog that I don’t want to leave alone for long periods. He was fuming.

AIBU to thinking nursing and healthcare in general need to do something drastic now to shake up the system to make people actually WANT to “nurse”?

I find that nurses don't leave good jobs, they leave bad management

I’ve always loved it but Covid has broken me and the faux concern for us when people were just relieved it wasn’t them being thrown into the lions den.. and how quickly they have forgotten what we have been put through I’m pretty done and ready to leave .

The three main problems I think are:

They scrapped burseries, but people retraining was always a decent % of nurses
Salary isn't that high so not super attractive in itself
Salary isn't high for a very stressful job - so numbers leaving are too high

Nurses haven't been valued enough. We've also plugged some of the gap with EU nurses but after Brexit fewer of them will want to come

And when I say I wasn't allowed to leave my ward, I mean immediately after the attack for treatment. I had to wait 3 hours to go to A&E when my shift finished.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

I do object to people who've received government training bursaries working part time, long term.

I think anyone who has received any sort of government training bursary or fee waiver, should be required to work full time for a minimum of 10 years post qualifying, prepay the bursary on a pro-rate basis. I would suggest that for periods of maternity/parental leave we should "pause the clock" on the 10 years.

ODFOD.

I worked my arse off ‘for free’ throughout my degree, got into student loan debt (not eligible for bursary due to parental income), so ‘only’ got my fees paid. At the time, degree fees were £3000ish per year so at most I owe the NHS £9000. I worked full time for 2 years, took maternity leave, and have worked part time since. I work bloody hard at my job. Very few of even my newly qualified colleagues work full time because it’s quite frankly should destroying at times. Burnout is real.

I quit nursing in April. The job isn't the same one I trained to do 30 years ago. It's basically just become an arse covering bureaucratic exercise. The patients come last. I tried to fit the care in around the bureaucracy not the other way round.

I also don't agree with the lack of palliative care and doctors refusing to take responsibility for their actions and causing suffering by insisting the dying are forced to remain alive and suffering great pain, indignity and discomfort.

The endless training was also a burden. There's only so often you can be told how to do xyz. I'm not a dummy and it wasn't about being updated. Most of the training was tedious bureaucratic stuff as well.

It's a shame because I loved my job.

I’m 13 years in and would like to retrain in law but I feel very stuck. I am top band 7 so although the pay lower down the bands isn’t great with a mortgage and DCs I get a decent salary at the moment and would lose that security (although in an advanced practice role the salary doesn’t really reflect the level of responsibility and pressure.) it just feels very relentless. There is little support from above and the opportunities are getting less and less to climb. Roles get debanded and then you are expected to do more for the same grade. The hours are inflexible with little opportunity for flexi/remote working which in a female dominated profession means people leave for a few years or drop to very part time hours to manage children. There are aspects of my job I absolutely love but parts that I equally detest. Fundamentally IMO large parts of the NHS are no longer fit for purpose but equally unsure what the answer is!

30 years I nursed and in the beginning I couldn’t imagine anything I would rather have done. The pay was always crap and I used to “moonlight” in nursing homes to make ends meet but the patients were grateful and respectful. They appreciated what was done for them. Verbal abuse was rare and physical abuse virtually unheard of. Staff had each other’s backs and although conditions were strict (god help you if you laddered your American tan tights) you knew where you were. It got me in the end. I would never go back.

@rosiethehen

I completely agree about palliative care. I get a wave of fear come over me every time I'm told on a Friday evening that ama patient is 'likely to go on the pathway tomorow'. You know they won't, you know they'll be still trying to cannulate Sunday night and give IVABX and IVI to a patient who is mottled and cold. It's cruel and all about covering their own arses instead of caring for the patient.

I wanted to do nursing. As a lone parent with no support I wouldn't have been able to train let alone work shifts. I know everyone has to take the bad with the good shiftwise but there was absolutely no give. I am not naive or believe lone parents are special and could train and work school hours but regular patterns that fall on the same days would help.
My friend became a widow and had to quit because she could no longer do the shifts. There must be thousands who face these barriers.
In the end I settled on radiography but didn't do that either after discussing placements with the university. They might send you to hospitals miles away despite my living next door to a huge teaching hospital. The NHS is not family friendly

My cousin is a nurse, she left the UK in January as she was sick of the poor working conditions in the NHS but she didn’t want to give up nursing. She now works shorter shifts, fewer hours overall and there a better patient to nurse ratio and she receives a higher level of pay.

Her wife is a GP, again she now has better hours, better working conditions and better pay. They’re a short hop from the UK so in non-covid times they can drive over for long weekends etc.

@NoIDontWatchLoveIsland

I do object to people who've received government training bursaries working part time, long term.

I think anyone who has received any sort of government training bursary or fee waiver, should be required to work full time for a minimum of 10 years post qualifying, prepay the bursary on a pro-rate basis. I would suggest that for periods of maternity/parental leave we should "pause the clock" on the 10 years.

Sounds as good a way as any to deter entrants, and to make anyone who does qualify in this manner and wants to work part time decide to work to rule. This is before we start to consider the equalities implications, given that women have more caring responsibilities than men and caring responsibilities are a significant factor in an individual not being in full time work.

I quit the NHS 3 years ago, best thing I ever did. I've been working abroad as a nurse for a long time, nurses aren't treated as crap in a lot of places in other countries and they don't have shortages I wonder why?
I'm in a Dementia NH now never thought I'd like it, but I do, treated with respect, friendly, and feel a sense of achievement at the end of the day.
They need free training, no annual fee for our registration and simlify the ongoing education. I used to do all my 30 continuing education from home and online for my US license, much better than having to work out how many classes attended and how many online hours etc etc.

My good fruend did a 12 hour shift this week. She got a twenty minute break, 3 hours into the shift and got to sit in a windowless cupboard for it (staff room) - that was her only break! I cant imagine why people dont want to work that hard

A friend of mine is moving abroad soon as the job over there pays more, has less antisocial hours and offers more progression long term. It was a difficult decision for her as she believes very much in the NHS, but her job has been killing her slowly. More and more nurses are leaving and the management expect them to pick up the leavers duties as they are struggling to replace them. It has got to the stage where she doesn't believe her patients are safe or well cared for.

In addition, they treated her like a robot during covid, she had inadequate PPE, was expected to do whatever hours they needed despite having young children and no one to look after them. She is still in debt from training and is stuck at the top of a band with nowhere to move to.

Well actually who wants to work nights weekends and bank holidays really! I would imagine that puts a lot of people off.

On the flip side it can work really well if you can achieve fixed shifts. Not a nurse but HCP retired from face to face. I worked weekends, nights and public holidays when my kids were young, not school age - by choice. DH worked a standard 9-5 job which meant that between us we had childcare pretty much covered in the young kid days. I had them of a day, DH had them evenings, weekends and public holidays. I know quite a few people who have worked it this way. I currently know one who is doing 12hr night shifts on weekends and a few 8hr night shifts during the week due to young kids - that’s utopia. It wouldn’t be feasible if partners are shift workers as well though.

Fixed shift opportunities for nurses here was always spruiked as a recruitment piece and those wanting nights/weekends would have been eagerly welcomed.

Oh yes and she also didn't have time to go to toilet on any of her recent shifts or have any food or more than a sip of water. She has also fainted twice as the wards are so hot and they aren't allowed fans (at any time, including pre covid)

I think anyone who has received any sort of government training bursary or fee waiver, should be required to work full time for a minimum of 10 years post qualifying, prepay the bursary on a pro-rate basis. I would suggest that for periods of maternity/parental leave we should "pause the clock" on the 10 years

What utter bollox. Life happens. We have babies with disabilities. Parents who need long term support with issues such as dementia. Our partners leave us, rendering full time shift work impossible. Husband falls off a ladder at work and needs full time care at home for the rest of his life. You develop cancer yourself at a young age. Literally all sorts could happen that make full time work for 10 years next to near impossible for so many people. Such a scheme would be costly to administer because it would need so many get out clauses to be fair to people, the staff that adminster it would need constant training and updating. The exceptions manual would be one heck of a weighty tome. These schemes are offered on a one-size fits all basis and you hope that by over-training, you get enough nurses/teachers/doctors/dentists...to fill your vacancies. The NHS has been propped up by foreign staff for years - and in some places, so has the education system - by putting conditions on bursaries so many people wouldn't bother because they wouldn't be able to see a way out if things went wrong for them. This would particularly be the case to older applicants who were already trying to juggle lots of balls but who felt there was room for one more. They simply wouldn't take the risk.

I don’t really get the outrage about parking. Surely everyone who drives to work pays for parking?

It's because the pay is shit, about half of what nurses make in the US. Here employers have to compete on benefits, working conditions, etc. and we still have spot shortages, but not like yours.

People (including some "senior" nurses) who drone on about "progression through the bands is a real benefit" are both annoying and speaking out of their arse, how many nurses are stuck on band 5/6 when even not so long about their jobs would have been band 7+

I would advise anyone who is looking at nursing to really consider some of the downsides - if you are keen to work in the NHS then have a look at some of the allied HCP roles - often quicker progression and less anti social shifts.

@Mirrorxx

I don’t really get the outrage about parking. Surely everyone who drives to work pays for parking?

Of course not. Lots of workplaces have free parking. Some of them even in the NHS: staff at my GP don't pay for it. They don't all, by any means, but neither is paying universal. And it's more of a live issue when people do funny shifts because sometimes that means public transport isn't an option either.

I think you answered your own question. Pay is shit, expectations placed upon you high. It's not a career its a vocation, tbh with the way nurses are treat from day one of enrolment in uni now.

No funding very low support and with the type of course very hard to get part time work as other students can. You can't guarantee that the bank will have shifts available when you are. You're now risking your life going to work for no reward to be screwed over left right and centre by the government.

I am oddly content that I had a total mental breakdown at the end of my 2nd year of nursing study, causing me to have to leave. I would not want to be out there in this, I appreciate the staff that are so very much. I couldn't do it.

I've been nursing 30 years this year and counting down to retirement at 55 in a few years,.
After being told "The needs of the service" come first rendering me incapable of working ad hoc shifts due to childcare, I escaped into general practice which is marginally better. The expectations of the public though, particularly a certain older generation grind me down. And I agree with a pp, far far too many people living too long.
Wouldn't go into nursing again.

How long have you got?!

-crap pay
-crap hours
-crap uniform
-the fees and demands of qualifying
-getting annual leave agreed is like getting blood out of a stone (literally at anytime, not during a pandemic). Despite extensive notice, right forms completed etc
-demanding managers who think you’re an arsehole for wanting your own life and ‘only’ doing the work of 2 people
-general public refusing to take responsibility for themselves e.g. side effects of eating too much, illicit drugs, smoking etc
-general public thinking you’re dogsbody / slave / physical or verbal punchbag. Next visitor who rocks up for visiting hours and demands a drink 90 seconds in is getting over their head