Should kids wear facemasks in school to reduce second wave and more school closures?

[947EliseChalotte]

Should kids wear masks in school in September when there are 30 in a class to reduce chances of second wave and avoid school shut down again?

Are all the posters saying teachers should have the option to wear a mask or visor forgetting that the teacher wearing one is protecting pupils not the teacher? Masks etc protect others.

Surely a visor protects the wearer because it has a solid surface/made of non-porous material?

I teach at a secondary school in Tokyo (12-18 years old). Every single student and staff member has been wearing a mask since we reopened 4 weeks ago. Nobody has complained, communication isn’t been affected and the students are just really happy to be back at school with their friends. We sanitize our hands before entering the classroom and wipe down desks and chairs with alcohol after use. The students eat packed lunches in the classroom and take their masks off for that but they’re not allowed to speak until they’ve finished eating and put their masks back on.

Personally I think masks should be worn in schools. Children with SEN or health issues should be exempt but everyone who can wear one should. Masks, even when imperfectly used, stop transmission at source.

Maybe secondary level. The risk of CV at primary school level is so, so tiny and IMO making very small children wear masks and socially distance is more damaging.

My DC4 went back in June part time, not socially distanced but in his bubble (they don’t make the youngest). If they’d wanted 4 year olds to socially distance I wouldn’t have sent him back and likewise if they want a 4 year old in a mask I’d withdraw him in September.

If needed I’ll wear a mask myself every time I go outside the house but I don’t want to make the youngest school age children do that.

Surely the exempt kids would fee their personal health info was on show and feel very othered

In a typical primary school class it's common knowledge who has an inhaler (asthmatic) which I'm guessing is the biggest group of kids who would be exempt.

Israel

I’m just going to leave this here. Make of it what you will.

Mencho Thank you for the insights into what's happening in Tokyo. It's really interesting to hear how other countries differ in their approaches.

@Orangeblossom78

Overall, I think the teachers should definitely be able to choose to wear visors if they want to. I know out school trust said they have got plenty of these, they wreaking them for the NHS as well...and spent thousands on hand gel too.

it's pretty rubbish if the government has specifically told them not to. They should have a choice. Just as shop / retail or cafe staff should, or anyone working with the public indoors.

I agree with this. I think masks are a dreadful idea as the kids will be messing with them and you won’t be able to hear the teachers voice properly or see the expression on their faces. However I can’t see why every cant be issued with a visor. They will last much longer and the face won’t be obstructed.

Also if kids had to wear masks what masks would they be? Would they be the standard white ones or would kids start wearing inappropriate ones? Who would monitor that? At what extra cost to parents would it be when parents are already stretched? Would the child be banned from entering school if they didn’t have an appropriate mask?

If the government started to make now, regulated visors that every one had to wear it wouldn’t be so complicated

Heres an idea. Lets never send our kids to school again. Lock them at home and see how quickly their mental health deteriorates. Lets shut down everything. Lets all ditch public transport and drive x20 more in our diesel cars. With zero interaction with others ever again, till we all die of pollution related diseases (which NOBODY has debated the public health risk/benefit balance of to same degree as crap masks that do shite all (apart from make people think they're doing something). The only effective masks would be medical grade PPE. Bits of filthy cloth, or masks 're used daily will do shite all but give a false and dangerous sense of protection.

Sorry for rant. But the reality is that public health policies have trade offs. Nobody has kicked off anywhere near as much fuss over the preventable deaths from our gas guzzling cars. Policy x on car use will, the statisticians know, will kill thousands and policy y will kill tens of thousands. And the policymakers do a risk/ benefit analysis and tolerate risk A because outcome B is less tolerable. That's how it works. How it's always worked. What is unacceptable is to introduce a minimally/ questionably effective (or possibly totally ineffective) measure where it inevitably carries adverse outcomes. That's bad, knee-jerk policy. Which feels driven by public opinion and fear rather than rationality

Well yes we need to consider the negatives of mask wearing too. All say every day at school very different to popping into a shop

Could even cause more risk if they take it on and off and don't wash it much. as teens might, on top of the communication and mental health aspects

I have also heard there is more risk between teachers than from children. Which can imagine as they have lots of meetings and team work in schools, staffrooms etc

Lets never send our kids to school again. Lock them at home and see how quickly their mental health deteriorates. many many children don’t go to school and don’t shrivel up and die. Where have you got this idea that school is the only way to grow up? Many children live in isolated places and grow into fine adults. Stop the ridiculous assertion that school is the be all and end all. It’s a good thing to have free institutional education and the sooner it runs well for all the better but lives are more important.

Israel
I’m just going to leave this here. Make of it what you will.

“Adults, including teachers and other employees, brought it into schools" ...

@Clavinova

Israel I’m just going to leave this here. Make of it what you will.

“Adults, including teachers and other employees, brought it into schools" ...

At very low levels because the disease was almost eliminated, and then spread like wildfire. Particularly where there was poor adherence to mask use and social distancing. It’s not going to look better in the U.K. where community levels of transmission are higher at the point of returning and there’s going to be no attempt at social distancing or mask wearing in schools.

Decisions have consequences. So parents do need to weigh up whether they think mask wearing is going to be more damagingly than spending another term being largely educated at home away from their friends. There’s increasing credible evidence that wearing a mask (even fabric ones) slows the rate of infection by preventing the wearer from spreading through droplets. If people want their children in school, being educated by a teacher, with the chance to socialise with friends, then the best chance of doing that is keeping the spread of infection as low as possible.

If something isn't done to protect school staff and children and schools re-open in the way suggested at the moment, there is a huge increase in the chance of a resurgance in schools. To date - and that's with only partial openings and social distancing, there have been 55 outbreaks in schools since re-opening. Although funnily enough we're not seeing that reported much in the media.

Whatever you feel about children's rights we all have responsibilities to keep children AND staff safe. There is a duty of care from teachers / staff and a duty of care towards teachers / staff. If we don't observe that, then schools will end up locking down again, or staff will be striking / resigning in their droves once increasing case numbers start.

It's not possible to say, 'just get them back and no they shouldn't have to wear masks, it's not fair or practical for the children'. We have to look for solutions or this just isn't viable for anybody.

I hope it becomes mandatory in secondry schools for children to wear masks (and for teaching staff) and possibly in KS2 as well. For younger children faceshields would work. Faceshields would also work for those unable to wear a mask for whatever reason.

They can be removed when outside and pupils are able to socially distance ie break and playtimes. They can be removed when eating. Children will not be in them for 6 straight hours.

Rather than giving the country £10 restaurant vouchers why can't money be spent on disposable face coverings? So if pupils need more than one in a day due to contamination, schools can provide them. Hand gel before putting on and removing, spraying masks with non-alcholoic sanitiser inbetween will all reduce spread from / to masks. No, not perfect - but most definitely better than nothing.

Staff should be able to choose what PPE they wear - masks, shields, a mixture of the two... or if they don't want any, then fine - but I wouldn't a child of mine sitting in a classroom with a teacher (sometimes shouting / voice raising ) at the front of the class spraying droplets on children sitting below!

Basically - doing nothing is not an option. We can't just pretend the vius is not there and this will go away. If parents want children taught inside schools, then adaptations, big ones, need to be made and that involves compromise for everyone.

Israel discipline problems mentioned in the age range it spread, also do they use track and trace? No mention of it

Secondary teacher here. You cannot expect schools to open full-time, with classes of 30 and no social distancing (our bubbles are meaningless -240 pupils, sharing toilets with other bubbles and staff move between). Whereas primaries can have meaningful bubbles, in secondaries there are only four ways of mitigating risk:

1. Close schools
2. Part time places so social distancing can, to an extent, happen
3. Extra cleaning (should be happening but isn't enough on it's own)
4. Everyone who isn't medically exempt should wear masks to slow transmission

55 outbreaks in 4 weeks with very low numbers in schools. In September, if we don't mitigate more than just a bit of extra cleaning, there will be outbreaks and schools will close.
We had some early cases at school. A teacher (female, 30s, white) was ill for 8 weeks. That's 8 weeks of cover lessons - online, because we closed shortly after. Staff will be ill, some will have longterm complications, some will even die. This, and constant closures, will be detrimental to your children's education.
We cannot just not mitigate and expect it to work as usual. If you want your secondary school children to have teachers left, to go to school next year with not too many closures, protect their vulnerable peers, they need to wear a fucking mask. Teenagers aren't as snowflakey as you all seem to think.

They do. An extremely effective one long before we had ours up and running. I think the phone surveillance part was stopped after courts found it to be an invasion of privacy. It’s certainly more functional than ours and was supposed to be one of the success stories.

If lack of discipline and rebelling does turn out to be the issue in middle schools, it’s probably important. Some children not following the rules shouldn’t mean we don’t have rules for anyone. That way you end up with higher spread in the middle schools and the high schools.

Some States in the US are requiring children as young as 3 to wear masks!

do think that's too young to expect them to actually keep them on...but do think everyone at school wearing visors is a good compromise.

Well said @AnIckabog

55 outbreaks in 4 weeks with very low numbers in schools.

If that’s from the Covid surveillance report, I don’t think it’s 55 in 4 weeks. It’s new outbreaks in the week of the report. So it was 55 last week in addition to the 44 the week before and the 48 the week before that.

Pebbles ideas sound good. I wonder of any way to send this to heads / government / maybe MP for consideration?

Rafels OK I see. And to be fair we have quite a disciple problem in some schools here...

Thanks @RafaIsTheKingOfClay I couldn't see the document very well on my phone.

That's even worse then! I'd love everything to go back to normal but that just can't happen. We need to be realistic.

If the elderly and vulnerable wish to avoid getting it then they should take precautions for themselves

FFS. Plenty of vulnerable people are children, adolescents and working adults.

Why not just be honest and say you couldn’t careless what happens to the less than 100% healthy as long as you can your family get to live normally?

@Orangeblossom78

Rafels OK I see. And to be fair we have quite a disciple problem in some schools here...

Absolutely. And schools will have to find ways to deal with that. I‘m just not sure it’s a reasonable excuse for not bothering at all.