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How can I find out what happened in court? (Trigger re indecent images)

156 replies

Sistery · 13/07/2020 16:37

Changed my name as this is totally outing if any of the few people I’ve told read it. I’ve talked about this on here before though and been on here for years and years.

My brother is in court in Scotland today charged with crimes related to child sexual abuse images. Arrested last July, pleading guilty, don’t know what the specific charges are but get the hint it’s as bad as it can possibly be. The only family that know are supporting him and refuse to tell me anything about it.

Unless it hits the local press (not sure if it will due to Coronavirus) how can I find out what the outcome was today? I’m hundreds of miles away. When I asked a similar question about what turned out to be a pre hearing appearance a lot of people on here said I needed to mind my own business etc. I appreciate some people think that but I just need to know Sad. This is my little brother whom I loved and thought was a good person and friend. I can never see him again but I need to know the details for my own understanding and closure. And - frankly - so I can defend my decision against the family members intent on minimising this who will try to manipulate him back into my life in the future. They don’t even know I know the hearing is today.

OP posts:
Sunnydayshereatlast · 13/07/2020 21:34

One of my previous neighbours was battered to death on the say so of vigilantes.. He was an innocent SN man visiting his dsis not a paedo getting out of prison...
Sick sick sick..

Desertislanddreamer · 13/07/2020 21:40

@berryhead2013

I'm in Scotland and know a court clerk what court is it
Jesus Christ don’t be be so ridiculous! At best they would lose their job.

Op I think I commented on your last post regarding your brother. The other pp who works for SCTS is correct, the court won’t release any information regarding his court appearance, neither will his solicitor without his consent. Your best bet would be to wait and see when the local paper picks up the story, keep searching his name on google or the local papers social media sites.

Nicknacky · 13/07/2020 21:44

To be fair to berryhead2013’s friend, she would probably have told her to piss off!

Consistentlytired · 13/07/2020 21:51

Hi OP just wanted to offer a handhold, I know exactly what you are going through. My family went through similar when we discovered my dad had images, although not of a sexual nature they where obviously for his sexual gratification. He actually molested my cousin when she was 7 she moved away he got off with it as she didn't say anything till 5 years later and it was literally her word against his. About 15 years later through a too complex story to get into we got a confession from him and he got sentenced to 4 yrs. It's a bitter sweet victory seeing your cousin finally get justice but to lose your dad.

Kaykay066 · 13/07/2020 22:01

Sorry to hear this op, I have personal experience of this.

It was in the papers locally and one national but a tiny bit. Lucky it didn’t impact my immediate family as we live out of area a bit.
Social work wouldn’t even tell me the terms of his bail/registration terms so I could protect my children it’s his human rights apparently, none of my business. I think people who look/make indecent images and worse should give up the right to confidenajlty as that’s why a man goes swimming with kids, stands in school playgrounds, has kids over to visit his kids. But it’s none of my business ss are aware of him and his kids and thick as mince wife who reproduced with him despite all this but clearly the safety of those kids is low on their agenda it’s disgusting. His parents and sister and fiancée stood by him so you’d be surprised that people do. Anyway perhaps Lucy faithful foundation or stop it now can help you understand things and support you, they are very good. I hope you get your answers and closure.

Sistery · 14/07/2020 00:48

Thank you all so much. I can't find the right words to say how much I appreciate the advice and kindness, and even just people understanding why I need to know. I'm sorry if I miss replying to anyone, I'm grateful for all the replies.

@BertieDrapper I am so sorry that you're in a very similar situation. My heart goes out to you. It's weirdly reassuring to me that you are also going no contact as it doesn't seem like this is the most common option. I hope you're ok. You can PM me if you ever need to talk.

@Nicknacky Is the Lucy Faithful one the 'Stop it Now' charity? I went on their forum for family and friends but it made me very uncomfortable as there were so so many people making excuses for their loved ones and talking about the 'evil internet' and 'the addiction' and things.

@TinnedPearsForPudding It blows my mind that social services can tell you to keep your child away from someone but no details as to why. How can they expect someone to make an informed decision then?!

@Malbecqueen and @Bluntness100I hadn't thought about how a solicitor could help - definitely worth thinking about, thank you.

Thank you for the link @SoulofanAggron - definitely something to try if I can't find out. I hope they wouldn't inform him though.

@Snowpatrolling That's a shameful sentence for such a terrible crime, it really doesn't do justice to the poor victims at all.

@jessstan2 Thank you for all your kind words. My brother is in his mid 30s. Unfortunately I don't think this is a case of something you can just look up on a website. I think there are chat rooms and files and dark shit involved.

@GuiltyBark ...and shaking off the image of them as the sweet cheerful little boy/happy teen or whatever and realising you didn't know them at all, it's really disturbing - this EXACTLY. It's that thought that breaks my heart the most, thinking of that little boy, my little playmate.

@Onedistraughtdm thank you for sharing your story. I can't imagine how painful that is for you. A brother hurts, but a son must be beyond devastating. I know my mum feels she has personally failed somehow.

@orangesandapplesandpearsohmy Yes I absolutely agree with you, that's completely the wrong term for it. Indecent images. I'm usually very very clear about calling it 'images of child sexual abuse' because I strongly believe in not hiding behind words but I didn't want to put something triggering in a trigger warning, if that makes sense.

@Consistentlytired I'm so sorry that you've been through something like this. I feel so sad and tired reading this thread in some ways - what horrible things family members have to go through because of someone else's actions. And extra painful when it's a person like a dad who is meant to be your protector and someone to look up to.

@Kaykay066 You sound like you've been through a lot of anger with this too. It really is so wrong that families aren't able to protect their children so that the privacy of the criminal is protected instead. And I genuinely don't understand anyone having a child with someone like this.

I'm googling a lot of different things, checking the papers and twitter, trying to call the court and will add the pf to that as well in time. I won't contact any 'hunter' group (to be fair I don't think that was suggested - just that their websites might carry details), but no I won't be giving them anything. As much as I'm devastated by what he's done, I don't want him or any of my other family members to face vigilante justice.

OP posts:
Sistery · 14/07/2020 00:50

Yikes, sorry that was long. I just wanted to reply to as many people as possible because I do genuinely appreciate the shared experiences advice and also all of the PMs from people offering support.

OP posts:
Stannisbaratheonsboxofmatches · 14/07/2020 01:02

Have you tried ringing the procurator fiscals office?

^^
This was what I was going to say.

The CPS in England would generally tell you as it’s in the public domain once it’s been in court.

SunshineCake · 14/07/2020 06:14

Child sexual offences are usually not allowed to be reported on in England and Wales to protect victims, rather than offenders.

This is wrong.

bookstearocknroll · 14/07/2020 06:48

I haven't read the full thread, so apologies if this has already been suggested but - if you're comfortable with the subsequent coverage - you could phone the court reporter/news room of your local paper and let them know that the case is going ahead as without a tip off or constant presence in court (and a lot of papers don't have the resources for that currently), they may not be aware.

I imagine they'd also be quite obliging if you phoned them up afterwards and asked for details of what happened (often they'll take down much more of the case than they're able to publish).

sashh · 14/07/2020 07:21

Scotland has its own version of Sarah's law, it won't tell you exactly what was said in court but will tell you about his conviction.

www.scotland.police.uk/keep-safe/young-people/supporting-children-and-young-people/sex-offender-community-disclosure-scheme/

WeirdAndPissedOff · 14/07/2020 07:50

Hi OP, I second trying to Google shortly after sentencing. When DSIL was in a similar situation, she found info on her brother here:
uk-database.net/
I'm ot sure where they get their info from, but it was quite detailed on the exact nature of the offences, sentencing etc.

Unfortunately poor DSIL got it from both sides - those who seemed to think she was tainted by association, and those in her family who were angry she didn't support him. They did eventually accept her decision once she had DN, but that brought a new wave of arguments as he's now free, and still the apple of his DM's eye, which means that DSIL doesn't feel able to trust her mother to have DN alone. Sad

I'm so sorry you're going through this, and I hope your family come around in time. Flowers

5tressed · 14/07/2020 08:30

Sistery Tue 14-Jul-20 00:48:35 - @Nicknacky Is the Lucy Faithful one the 'Stop it Now' charity? I went on their forum for family and friends but it made me very uncomfortable as there were so so many people making excuses for their loved ones and talking about the 'evil internet' and 'the addiction' and things.

I found the exact same thing 2 weeks ago on my first venture onto that site. I haven't been back. I was thinking about it again this morning and feeling cross actually! One answer particular in reply to a new poster there with the same situation as yourself basically said 'our poor men folk are being honey trapped while watching porn or just 'stumbling' on these images and being condemned for it. Don't tell anyone about it and it all go away' HmmHmmAngry FFS. No one challenged it either. For that reason I left the site. There was much better help here with my own thread on MN recently and none of that minimising shit.

I too am awaiting the time when i'm going to have to dig to find out what the scotish courts say. So reading this with great interest.

I'm one step further removed from you OP, as the offender in my case is my DHs brother. The family are doing a sterling job of making it 'not his fault'. Poor him. I'm really cross and so conflicted about it. I'll stop now as this will turn into a rant!

Flowers for all affected by this.

Nicknacky · 14/07/2020 09:17

Oh, that’s terrible about the support forums for families. I suppose not everyone will be willing to admit their family members are guilty and are responsible for their own actions.

thisiseveryonesbusiness · 14/07/2020 09:27

@nicknacky why isn't there more noise being made about just how vast this is? Campaigning for tougher sentences for those that access images, proper thought given as to how to deal with them away from society, campaigning to remove the confidentiality element, more done about spreading information to educate families who are in denial?

Haworthia · 14/07/2020 10:43

It's shocking that family members can be kept completely in the dark about crimes a near-relative has committed and even whether or not they've been imprisoned. That feels like a loophole that needs closing. Forcing people to rely on word of mouth or the lies of their supporters is how people end up suffering at their hands.

Totally agree. The person I knew who did this (a friend, not family) managed to keep it completely secret because he didn’t go to prison. Bloody should have though. I found out by accident some years later. I went NC immediately but was furious that I’d been lied to about something so despicable.

Coronabegone · 14/07/2020 20:53

@yetea how long ago was the case you're referring to? I'm interested in a case many years ago.

GreatestShowUnicorn · 14/07/2020 21:03

If you can find the evening paper for the area they will often have court reports, Evening Telegraph for example. Though not sure if that’s Different in Covid.

jessstan2 · 14/07/2020 21:35

Ledehe Mon 13-Jul-20 20:28:45
berryhead2013

I'm in Scotland and know a court clerk what court is it

This is illegal and your friend should lose their job and be prosecuted if they disclose information to you like this
.......
Only if someone lets on who told them and that isn't likely to happen in this instance.

OP, if you don't live nearby you are not likely to see your brother when he is released, surely?

Nicknacky · 14/07/2020 21:40

jessstan2 Sorry, have I picked you up right? That it wouldn’t matter if that information was passed if no one found out?

Emeraldshamrock · 14/07/2020 21:54

Only if someone lets on who told them and that isn't likely to happen in this instance
You are joking you're offering your friends service to a stranger on the internet?
You are aware your friend could not only lose her job but face prosecution?

jessstan2 · 15/07/2020 10:28

Nicknacky Tue 14-Jul-20 21:40:44
jessstan2 Sorry, have I picked you up right? That it wouldn’t matter if that information was passed if no one found out?
..
I wouldn't go as far as to say it wouldn't matter, Nicknacky; in my view a person employed in a strictly confidential role should keep confidence. However things are leaked and what I meant is they may not lose their job if a leak cannot be pinned on them.

Nicknacky · 15/07/2020 10:40

jessstan2 I really still don’t get your point.

No one is going to risk their job (and that’s what they are doing) for a stranger on the internet. If they do, then they deserve to be sacked.

I have the ability to find out what happened to the OP’s brother as I have access to the police systems where this information is held and I only need my identification number and name to access it. I’m never asked to justify my use however my reason for accessing that could and would be scrutinised if it was ever looked into.

But I still wouldn’t access it for anything outwith policing purposes.

thisiseveryonesbusiness · 15/07/2020 16:27

Are you able to answer my question @nicknacky or is this not the right thread for it or is it not helpful for you to give personal views?

jessstan2 · 15/07/2020 16:38

'Nicknacky', let's not get bogged down with this. I was merely thinking that people in confidential rules do sometimes break confidence and nobody knows it was them who did it but I agree it is a bad idea. Also that no one would do it for a person they don't know.

In the op's place I would write to my brother and ask him to tell me everything so I could make my own judgement.

It's a very sad situation for everyone.

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