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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

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Original poster

How can I find out what happened in court? (Trigger re indecent images)

156 replies

Sistery · 13/07/2020 16:37

Changed my name as this is totally outing if any of the few people I’ve told read it. I’ve talked about this on here before though and been on here for years and years.

My brother is in court in Scotland today charged with crimes related to child sexual abuse images. Arrested last July, pleading guilty, don’t know what the specific charges are but get the hint it’s as bad as it can possibly be. The only family that know are supporting him and refuse to tell me anything about it.

Unless it hits the local press (not sure if it will due to Coronavirus) how can I find out what the outcome was today? I’m hundreds of miles away. When I asked a similar question about what turned out to be a pre hearing appearance a lot of people on here said I needed to mind my own business etc. I appreciate some people think that but I just need to know . This is my little brother whom I loved and thought was a good person and friend. I can never see him again but I need to know the details for my own understanding and closure. And - frankly - so I can defend my decision against the family members intent on minimising this who will try to manipulate him back into my life in the future. They don’t even know I know the hearing is today.

OP posts:

Bunnymumy · 13/07/2020 17:23

The sheriff court? Not the high court? Surely child abuse images would be dealt with in the high court?

I'm a bit confused...surely you would want to know all the deets before jumping to the guilty conclusion and wanting nothing to do with him? Unless you have prior info that he has done similar before/is a complete asshole and just know he is going to be guilty...?

If it's the later then chances are he is going to be found guilty right? Google the sentencing lengths for his types of crime in scotland and it should give you a general idea of how long he may be sentenced for. But you cant choose to have nothing to do with someone and then expect the court to tell you how their trial went.

Fanthorpe · 13/07/2020 17:24

I’m not sure how it works in Scotland but if it’s the first time he’s been to court and made a not guilty plea he won’t have been sentenced today though will he? Won’t he go to trial? And even if he pleaded guilty he won’t be sentenced straight away, there’s normally a later sentencing appearance. Maybe ask again over in the legal board.

yetea · 13/07/2020 17:24

I hope you can find something similar for Scotland. In my experience the paedophile hunter type groups for my area seemed to have information quickly if you feel able to search through anything like that. I was worried about community retribution against unconnected family members so was keeping an eye on these things, but it was really difficult to read some things so take that in to account if you try searching there. It's a difficult situation to be in, particularly if some family members cannot see the guilt and are withholding information (very similar here), you have my sympathy .

Nicknacky · 13/07/2020 17:25

Bunnymumy No, they are generally heard at the sheriff court.

Bunnymumy · 13/07/2020 17:25

Yeh theres a preliminary hearing where the plead and then the actual hearing at a later date in scotland.

TicketToTheWrongFilm · 13/07/2020 17:28

@Bunnymumy the OP said that he was pleading guilty.

Original poster

Sistery · 13/07/2020 17:29

I think the fact he's (as far as I know) pleaded guilty will keep it quiet too. No trial or anything for the press to be interested in.

I never thought of the family of criminals before this too. It's so painful and not to sound dramatic or like I'm making it all about me when the real victims of this type of crime have suffered so horrifically, but this has really dented my trust in people and my trust in my own judgement.

OP posts:

TubbyMcFatfuck · 13/07/2020 17:30

Hi OP,
I work within the Scottish court system, (am on mat leave just now though) and unfortunately, the court is not able to discuss the outcome with any member of the public, even if you are related. We get phonecalls all the time from distraught relatives wanting to know whether or not their loved one is coming home or has been sent to prison, but due to the new GDPR rules we are not allowed to disclose it. It's very frustrating for all concerned especially as before GDPR came in we were able to tell the outcome.

Transcripts are not made available to the public either I'm afraid.

The only way for you to find out is for your brother or family to tell you - unless of course it was picked up by the press and reported on.

I'm so sorry, this must be incredibly difficult for you.

Soubriquet · 13/07/2020 17:31

How can the parent stand by knowing your brother saw images of children being sexually abused?

I don’t get it

I had a friend who was fount guilty a couple of years ago to grooming young teenagers.

Many people stood by him as she was 14 and they saw it was ok.

I didn’t, and so did many friends. We all walked in disgust

I’m sorry you’re going through this OP

workshy44 · 13/07/2020 17:32

This is very hard. It is so difficult to separate your feelings for his crime and for him as a brother that you love.
No advice just a handhold.

Original poster

Sistery · 13/07/2020 17:33

@Bunnymumy Today was the actual hearing. I know sentencing may be later but it isn't always. It was the Sheriff court.

He was (as far as I know) pleading guilty, but had also admitted guilt to me and later divulged to someone else I know that the extent of it was very serious. Also, when someone is caught with possession of images in this way there isn't really any need to wait and see what the facts are, is there?

OP posts:

Dreamersandwishers · 13/07/2020 17:33

You may have to wait until he is sentenced to get more information on outcomes etc, and if it’s a first offence that may require further background reports.
You may have to write to the clerk of the court to get the information , but while the court transcripts may be sealed for 100 years, the verdicts & sentences are not, you may just be too early .
Daily Record covers most of the central belt, Aberdeen Journals will cover Aberdeen, Peterhead & Inverness, Courier will cover Dundee.
So sorry this has happened in your family.

Clartymidden · 13/07/2020 17:33

We sometimes have access to certain details of sheriff court trials through my work. I don't really want to say where I work and its only really if there is a link between my work and the person...

I'm on leave but I'll check and see if there is anything of this nature in my work emails for today.

Clartymidden · 13/07/2020 17:35

Should say, if there is i can't disclose content but could point you in the right direction to get the answers you're looking for.

Original poster

Sistery · 13/07/2020 17:35

Hi @TubbyMcFatfuck (I hated typing your username - felt so rude!)

Thank you for your reply. Even though it's very depressing, it's what I feared. How awful that we protect criminals to this extent and leave their families in fear and confusion.

OP posts:

Original poster

Sistery · 13/07/2020 17:37

Sorry meant to add @TubbyMcFatfuck that I do really appreciate you taking the time to reply, even though it wasn't what I wanted to hear. x

OP posts:

SinkGirl · 13/07/2020 17:39

I am really shocked - surely the outcomes of convictions should be a matter of public record? If you go bankrupt it has to be published in the local paper FFS

Bunnymumy · 13/07/2020 17:39

Ah I gotcha. Probably a good thing he is pleading guilty then or you would have had the dilemma of wondering if you should be a witness against him added on top of things.

Yeh I can imagine it fair knocks the confidence in people to find that out about a brother. But at least you feel you've made the right choice. I'm sure itll all come out in time as to what the sentence will be. Sounds like you are better off out of that side of the family anyway though.

Nicknacky · 13/07/2020 17:41

She wouldn’t be a witness at all!

Original poster

Sistery · 13/07/2020 17:42

@Soubriquet I don't judge any parent for standing by their child. I really don't. But I do think it's very unfair that to support him they want to minimise it and to do that they need to make out that I'm in the wrong for not minimising it.

OP posts:

TubbyMcFatfuck · 13/07/2020 17:42

Not at all OP. I can only imagine how upsetting this is for you.
I've had family members in tears over the phone pleading with me to tell them where their family member is. It's awful.
It's a long shot, but do you know who his solicitor is? They may be able to help but are probably bound by the same rules the court are.

Bunnymumy · 13/07/2020 17:43

If someone tells you 'yes, i've done this' and describes the details to you, how, I'm pretty sure that would make you a suitable witness. Or at least, someone they would want a statement from.

Nicknacky · 13/07/2020 17:43

Bunnymumy That’s not the situation here. She would not be a witness in this case even if he did please not guilty.

Fatted · 13/07/2020 17:43

Child sexual offences are usually not allowed to be reported on in England and Wales to protect victims, rather than offenders.

Original poster

Sistery · 13/07/2020 17:45

@SinkGirl I agree - before this I was just sure you'd be able to find out about convictions because surely criminals don't deserve to have their convictions kept secret!

OP posts:

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