Are you being told to clean toilets at work?

[noblegiraffe]

If cleaning toilets wasn’t previously anywhere near your job description?

It’s being claimed on another thread that this is just part of the new normal, everyone is pitching in. I’m not convinced.

YABU - I’m being asked to clean toilets

YANBU - I’m not being asked to clean toilets

If you are, are you ok with it?

I will absolutely not be cleaning toilets in my school - or at the very least if I am, someone can come in to supervise my class (as the toilets are not in classroom). It seems counterproductive to me to have to bring in an extra person to the room and have the kids miss out on lesson time. It will certainly not be happening during my break times or after school.

I'm a secondary head (overseas, female).

Under no circumstances will I or my teachers be cleaning student toilets. We have hired more cleaners.

For the record, I am very busy but have a much more flexible day than the teachers, so if anyone were to have time to do so, it would be me and SLT, not the teaching staff (@FishyDuck).

I get the impression that a lot of MN users (like fishyduck for example) have truly enjoyed balancing working from home with homeschooling/childcare. They seem to be under the illusion that teachers just "have" to do anything and "suck it up". The thing they need to remember is, teaching is not a life sentence and staff are absolutely free to walk away and it is the ultimately the parents and kids that will suffer if they do.

I know of 3 teachers already who have quit and are not fulfilling their notice period for various reasons. Our entire science department is leaving on Friday - all 8 teachers - and they have managed to replace just 3! It took us 18 months to replace one of our teachers because no one was applying (and this was a very affluent part of London, in a successful school with no behaviour issues really).

A lot of schools closed prior to Boris shutting them in March because they didn't have enough teachers to staff them with shielding happening. If teachers keep leaving like that, schools are going to end up shutting again or kids are going to have disrupted learning with various supply teachers (who will also most likely to refuse to clean the toilet). It's basic management; you look after your staff and your staff will look after your business.

It's obvious most teachers are saying they won't do it. And rightly so.

If the government doesn't come up with the cash for cleaning and cleaners to do it then schools will have to close again.

I’m guessing that includes all primary teachers and TAs too.

So every school in the land should close until a team of cleaners is hired for each. Even though it’s only light cleaning required and most of the day none at all. Very expensive cleaning teams should be paid for doing nothing most of the day and for just wiping a few surfaces when they do.hmm]

As for staff lightly cleaning toilets putting children at risk. Primaries have been doing this since lockdown without full PPE or 2 clothing changes. School infection rate is very low. How on earth does wiping a seat, handles and taps make your clothes more hazardous than the clothes of children using the toilets?

FishyDuck

It says alot about you that you think that those are more important than spending money to keep hygiene standards in place.

Why do the toilets need extra cleaning? We're told over and over the infection rates are so low, children don't transmit etc.
Can see a case for staff loos needing more wipes etc, but I think we need to accept that if all dc are safe to return at once the toilets will have to have a normal level of cleaning only.
Agree with the poster who works in cleaning there would have to be specific training given to all staff involved in these cleaning crews and risk assessments carried out.

I'm in a nursery and we have to clean toilets every time they are used and clean the building at the end of the day as the company say they can't afford to bring the cleaners back. I'm not happy about it at all but don't have a choice.

Our toilets aren't getting cleaned any more than usual, nor touch points, though we have been asked to wipe down keyboards and phones at the end of the day.

@Mistressiggi
Ask the government why they need cleaning.

@KateF if you don't want to do it directly, and I know this can be difficult because of the ramifications, set up a fake email and send the COSHH stuff etc. If you all have email address, cc everyone in including you.

No, the cleaners are go8ng round the office more than usual though and cleaning the toilets every hour (bear in mind that we are a 5 storey building with toilets on every floor) so by the time they finish they generally start again

Our building can hold 400 people and since lockdown I would say less than half are at work and the desks are usually in banks of 3 and the middle 1 has been blocked off which means there's also not enough space for everybody to be at work

No you shouldn't need to and if you don't want to don't .
Wash your hands properly, don't touch surfaces if possible .

There are loads of people prepared to go the extra mile, roll up their sleeves as Bev as date and work in their lunch break, evenings and weekends. It's par for the course outside of the public sector (and within it for many).

Many of these people are loosing their jobs sadly.

I hope some have the skills to retrain as teachers to fill the gaps that are appearing due to a mismatch between what teachers are asked and are willing to do in order to be paid.

Oh god @Chaotic45 you aren’t even joking. I thought your post was ironic. You literally have no idea what happens in secondary schools, do you? I don’t know a teacher in one who ever gets a break or lunchtime. Because they’re cramming in revision sessions/coursework catchup/staff meetings/detentions twelvty zillion other things that they can’t fit in anywhere else but need doing for their actual job, y’know, the teaching and learning.

I know plenty of people firsthand in your mythical “private sector” who expect a climate controlled, resourced, manageable, well-remunerated, appropriately paced, clean and above all SAFE workplace who laugh at what’s expected of teachers.

Like many others, the shit piled on teachers on this thread and now more literally in real life will eventually be enough for me to say fuck it. I love the kids and the job, but I don’t need to be the nation’s punching bag for 60+ hours a week in on relatively low pay for my qualifications AND take on corona without any protection.

Nah mate. I’ll be off to the private sector and put my own kids first for once.

I can categorically say that i dont eant my childrens teachers cleaning the toilets. Particularly teen boys.
I would rather the teen boys themselves were put on a rota to clean up after themselves under supervision of all those parent volunteers who said they eould help schools go back.

@wagtailred

Once they heard about the wonderful help they could do by scrubbing the toilets. All those parent volunteers are now at home busy preparing themselves for September.

wagtail I've always thought that the Japanese and Korean school systems were great where every kid is required to take part in cleaning their own school. Life skills plus the cleaning gets done!

@Xiaoxiong
Some schools in the UK also do this. Between lessons they are encouraged to help put everything away.

At lunch time each table might have a "server" or two, the tables are mixed ages, they all help each other pour water, get cutlery things like that. After they've eaten, the helpers will make sure all the tables are cleared to be cleaned. Some schools also allow wiping tables (soapy warm water) and floors to be swept by pupils.

In class they can also sweep and wipe tables again with warm soapy water.

In primary school these are some very sought after roles by some pupils.

Secondary erm from personal experience staff do cleaning. Lunch time additional staff employed. Cleaners some throughout the day, some after/before school.

Teachers should be ensuring the classroom/office is cleared so it can be cleaned by the cleaners, although reality it doesn't happen because there's hardly any time. Some things do need leaving out for the next day. Art work needs to be left out to dry etc. Cleaners don't have time to be moving everything so gets wiped round.

Over the years I have become very suspicious when I have seen a pristine school unless it's only been open a few months, or the first Inset day in September. Others of course may have a different experience.

Oh damn, and libraries 🤣

@CheesecakeAddict. Our entire science department is leaving on Friday - all 8 teachers - and they have managed to replace just 3!

And this is just the start. I am also leaving and am aware of 6 others who are going - private school! A couple of others are eking out their maternity leave for as long as possible when they would have been back in September. I suspect there will be a number of babies amongst younger staff that might not have happened all at the same time.

The lack of understanding about the state of the education system is terrifying. Anyone with children really needs to get a grip and start lobbying their MP. The system needs investment and teachers need decent wages and support to do their jobs safely.

And this is just the start. I am also leaving and am aware of 6 others who are going - private school!

How what are the main reasons? Do they feel to at risk from CV

Too!

It might be the case the between certain months there was an increase in uptake of teacher training applications. This was at the beginning, and how many have since had second thoughts? It's only when the courses finish (if they ever start) that true figures can be shown.

Remember at the beginning and there was the drive for staff into NHS. Even before the drive, post after post from NHS staff they would sign back up, volunteer etc if they could to help out. IIrc correctly loads did (not sure if they were from here lol).

We all know people have quit education over the years. Where are all the posts from those ex staff standing up offer their own support in their own profession. That silence says everything to me, and I don't even mean the Thursday clap.

This idea that teachers will be rushing for the exits if we expect them to do additional cleaning is a nonsense! There are no jobs for the millions of newly unemployed as it is, never mind for thousands of former teachers to take up!

And as this thread has demonstrated, the teachers walking out over cleaning toilets may we find themselves cleaning in any putative new job anyway.

"And as this thread has demonstrated, the teachers walking out over cleaning toilets may we find themselves cleaning in any putative new job anyway."

This thread hasn't demonstrated that at all. Most people whose jobs don't normally include cleaning or other manual tasks aren't being asked to clean the toilets after everyone.
If teachers go and work in an office they won't have to do it.

73% of people have voted that no, they’re not being asked to clean toilets.

Many of those who voted yes say that they are only asked to clean after themselves which is reasonable.