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AIBU?

Share your dilemmas and get honest opinions from other Mumsnetters.

To think that we are being forced into a cashless society?

655 replies

rockingthelook · 12/07/2020 21:54

My parents really don't like to use debit cards, especially the contactless ones, however , due to C19 this seems to be the way forward? They like to take their money from the bank and use the cash rather than cards, really don't want to bank or pay for anything online because they don't trust it, but everything seems to be geared towards contactless. They had a walk today and wanted to buy a cup of tea from a takeaway cafe and couldn't, not only because the place wouldn't take cash, but the cards had to be contactless, and their cards aren't (they asked not to have this feature as frightened of them being stolen and used) It seems to be that the banks etc are using the C19 situation to force things through, my mum was even told by the cashier in the bank the other day to use the cash machine in the bank rather than get the cash over the counter because of the 'risks', fgs it's THEIR money, can't believe Age Concern/UK aren't all over this!

OP posts:
Hardbackwriter · 13/07/2020 22:23

Absolutely it's a choice that you're entitled to make, no one is going to compel you otherwise. I just don't think it's a wise choice as it nearly inevitably turns into not-a-choice at some point - I don't really think it is possible to keep up with technology while also not using it in any way - and, like it or not, that makes you very vulnerable (and puts an unnecessary burden on your child). It's like women who don't drive but also don't live somewhere with public transport because their husband does it - that's a choice, but it suddenly leaves them without many choices and very dependent on others when he dies and they're unable to get around.

Number3or4 · 13/07/2020 22:24

I don’t want to live in cashless society. Just before lockdown in Sainsbury’s, I don’t know what happened but I couldn’t pay using my phone. Electronic can fail, what will we do if it fails? I can’t always just run home to get my debit card, or use the emergency money I used to hide in my car.

Couple of years ago my bank decided to put a temporary block on my bank card, after I made an error at the petrol pay by card machine. I didn’t have my phone with me but luckily dbro was with me and he paid for my fuel. The machine tried to deduct £0.00 from my account and that lead to automatic block.

I’m already worried about vulnerable people who lose their cards whilst out in town, they can’t use cash anymore on busses to get back home.

Cash is important and I don’t want to lose it.

lljkk · 13/07/2020 22:30

threads like this make me very resolved to use cash as much as possible

thegcatsmother · 13/07/2020 22:42

As an adult, it is however, Hardbackwriter my choice to make.

I think you can keep up with technology, if you are interested in it, and it has some application in your life. If it doesn't (smartphones and bluetooth for me for example), you don't bother so much.

My Mum was born in 1940; has an iPad, uses a Kindle, has a smartphone (but only has that on when she wants), but won't have an Amazon account or bank online. The pace of change in her lifetime has been astounding, and she has done well to use what she does. I grew up before the internet and mobiles, so I can take it, or leave it. I am far less bothered when there are internet issues than my ds.

As for cashless, there was a really useful thing in Belgium called Proton, that you added to your debit card, and was a separate payment method to Bankcontact (not a lot of visa debit cards over there). you could preload it with cash, and use it to pay for small things, like bread, where the shop owner didn't want to pay the massive charges to the banks for having a debit card machine. It was, like all useful things, withdrawn.

ShinyFootball · 13/07/2020 23:07

Another thought.

On top on the 1 million 'unbanked'
And all the people who are living outside of mainstream society for whatever reason (people sleeping rough etc)

Who would essentially be locked out of what, buying anything?

There are the large numbers of people in the 'underground economy'.

That won't stop- people will always want drugs, or to buy others for sex, or whatever it is.

So we'll end up with those people operating some kind of 21st century bartering economy I would imagine. And for people who are vulnerable/ being exploited, it will make things much much worse.

Can you even imagine the sort of currency that would result? My guess is that sexual exploitation would go through the roof.

malmi · 13/07/2020 23:21

If you refuse to use new technology then you will just have to try to pay with cigarettes or packets of instant noodles like they do in prison.

Cash was obviously a new technology at one point and there will certainly have been people who refused to use it and went around trying to barter with cabbages or whatever. Each to their own, I suppose.

thegcatsmother · 13/07/2020 23:38

malmi I pay with a debit card, I choose not to have contactless. Cash adds resilience for a nation; which is why various governments have, and are, legislating to keep it. It's a form of insurance if you will; if all the systems go down, at least you have some form of money with which to keep afloat.

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/social-credit-in-china/ shows where all this can lead. Scary.

StripeyBananas · 13/07/2020 23:45

Those of you who say that cashless is the future, need to move with the times, not be scared of technology etc why does it matter to you if some people want to use cash? Nobody is saying that you can't keep doing what you want, i.e. use cards.

h3av3n · 13/07/2020 23:46

Nice to know that so many of you don't give a shit about homeless people

LittleBearPad · 13/07/2020 23:51

@lovelifehope

How will we pay the window cleaner, roofer, plumber etc, by bank transfer? It’s ridiculous, we need cash for all sorts of things.
Yes by bank transfer. It’s not rocket science.
Bouledeneige · 13/07/2020 23:55

I pay my window cleaner and my builder by bank transfer and it takes 2 minutes in my phone. Easy peasey.

malmi · 14/07/2020 00:13

Nice to know that you want homeless people kept in their place begging for pennies on the streets

Bouledeneige · 14/07/2020 00:24

Is the solution you seek for homeless people having pennies to give them? How gracious! I'm more for systemic change myself.

h3av3n · 14/07/2020 00:26

How would a cashless society help homeless people? You think that would somehow equate to a systematic change which benefits the homeless? No. It would just mean that we can no longer give homeless people money.

Proudboomer · 14/07/2020 00:56

The new style bank notes are made of polymer which is a thin plastic. If you are so concerned about germs on cash then give it a spray with dettol.

Polymer notes are cleaner and stronger than old paper notes so last longer. By next year all our notes will be polymer as only the £50 is yet to be released.

So the argument that cash is dirty and full of germs is no longer true.

Proudboomer · 14/07/2020 01:00

Charity collection tins by the tills in shop also rely on cash purchases and it is a revenue stream for many charities who struggle to stay afloat.
How will they make up the short fall if they no longer have these collections?

sst1234 · 14/07/2020 01:22

Peddling conspiracy theories doesn’t mean that the current trend will slow down or stop. E payments will be the only way to go. Take it up by choice or be forced to.

Iflyaway · 14/07/2020 01:38

I like it. I have my cards protected by RFID covers.

No more grubby notes and coins.

And I'm all for anti money laundering in the drugs and prostitution (slavery) world.

Iflyaway · 14/07/2020 01:43

Lol @Proudboomer spraying notes with Dettol.

Sorry, not a laugh at your expense, just the crazy weird world we live in now.... (boomer and proud too Smile).

ShinyFootball · 14/07/2020 02:46

Then we need the systematic change before locking the people who are desparate basically out of society.

The point about bartering in the underground economy is not trivial either.

It will make criminal activity much more extreme and dangerous.

And the 1 million or so people without bank accounts, what of them?

ShinyFootball · 14/07/2020 02:49

I mean this sort of thing is crass

'Nice to know that you want homeless people kept in their place begging for pennies on the streets'

Tell us your plan for sorting out rough sleeping and the people who can't access bank accounts (even though by law the banks should offer them) and how to tackle the underground economy so that people in dire situations won't be used as literal currency and then we can think about the cashless thing.

Actually it won't happen anyway. I just realised. Men like to pay for sex and keep it hidden. So. That's the end of that idea.

NotMyTimes · 14/07/2020 03:27

Sorry OP but your parents seem stubborn rather than actually struggling with anything. You say they don't 'like' using debit cards and they 'like' to take cash out. I'm afraid they're adults and as adults we all have to do things we don't like.

It is ridiculous (especially in pandemic times) that your mum is going up to a cashier at a bank to get cash out rather than using an ATM. It's time wasting, unnecessary and selfish. It might be THEIR money but for the cashier it's THEIR time being wasted and THEIR life that your parents are compromising with unnecessary contact. If you parents want that much control over THEIR money they can keep it under a mattress, but when you sign up to a bank you agree to their terms of usage and if their policy says cash must be withdrawn through an ATM, not face to face, your parents need to do this or find a new bank which has policies they like.

RE the cup of tea, again I think they're being ridiculous. A cafe is well within its right, again especially right now with a pandemic, to refuse to take cash and even to insist on contactless payment (as it's not the kind of place anyone will be spending £40+). Even outside pandemic times if a place wants to be 'card only' that's their right as much as any other place that is 'cash only'.

I get why they might have a fear of contactless but it's one that has been mitigated time and time again with thousands of cases of banks proving they give refunds if a card is stolen and the contactless feature used to spend money. I get people don't like change but we're progressing as a society and that involves change, people can't be stuck in their rut and refuse progression just because 'they don't like it'. Yours is not one bit a concern for AGEUK because it's not a matter of elderly people being disadvantaged because they're incapable of engaging with a debit card/contactless, it's just a case of your parents not wanting to, and if they make that choice they have to live with the limitations this puts on their life.

There are all kinds of free cards out there which have a contactless feature so it's not a case of it only being fancy accounts that allow it. Cards like starling and monzo you can even transfer a small amount into and just keep topping up as need be, so you could put £30 on there for teas/coffees out, bread, milk ect and just top it up as you run out. Then no more fear of losing all your money if your card gets nicked, it's no different from losing £30 in cash if your wallet got stolen, actually it's better because 99.99% of the time the bank will refund it.

I'd be fine with a cashless society but don't see it happening anytime soon (too many corrupt politicians paying for their prostitures and drug habits in cash for the government to ever actually legislate it or allow it to happen completely), however you can't insist private businesses keep taking cash because some people prefer it when it'd be far more of a benefit to them to be card only. You can choose to protest this by using a different business that does accept cash but ultimately given how well it's working now I can't see this changing any businesses mind. If your parents want to resist progress and change by insisting on using cash that's fine but they can't expect the world to accommodate them and will have to accept the limitation on them if they limit how much they'll engage with modern society.

heartsonacake · 14/07/2020 04:27

@Proudboomer

The new style bank notes are made of polymer which is a thin plastic. If you are so concerned about germs on cash then give it a spray with dettol.

Polymer notes are cleaner and stronger than old paper notes so last longer. By next year all our notes will be polymer as only the £50 is yet to be released.

So the argument that cash is dirty and full of germs is no longer true.

Of course it’s still true. You just don’t want it to be because you don’t want people to be discouraged from using it.
LovingLen · 14/07/2020 05:47

@Bouledeneige

I pay my window cleaner and my builder by bank transfer and it takes 2 minutes in my phone. Easy peasey.
Of course it's easy once you have set up the payee, setting it up is the PITA, making sure you have put it in correctly then getting codes or the bank having to do a callback, blah, blah, blah. Setting up a new payee is really long winded nowadays.
LovingLen · 14/07/2020 05:53

and the latest thing is 'name don't match'