To ask what you think of Eastern Europeans living in the UK?

[Bananasinpjs7]

I have lived in the UK for almost 10 years which is pretty much a 1/3 of my life. I never thought I’d stay this long but met my partner here and decided to build a career in an industry that we don’t really have in my home country... yet.
I’m trying my best... language wise I think I’m pretty fluent. English is the language I speak 95% of the time.
I try to fit in as much as possible, learn as much as I can about the UK to understand it’s history and culture...
But I feel extremely left out ... I feel people look at me and think ‘she is from eastern eu’ as if it has some sort of stigma. It feels like if you are from somewhere glamorous like France or Scandinavian countries you are much more accepted... I’m so tired of constantly feeling like this

Well Romanias have a difficult situation because they belong to the same culture group as France, Italy, Spain etc. but they are definitely seen as inferior so indeed there is many Romanians looking for a refugee among Slavs.

I think this term is so undefined and has nothing to do with geography that it serves every purpose really. Although, I will be pushing that sense Brexit and Nigel Farage's comments it is a negative label.

No they don’t. It is more religion that makes them aline themselves with Eastern Europe as orthodox Is the main religion of Eastern Europe where as France, Italy and Spain are catholic.
Romania is still a very religious based society. I was told by one Romanian that Romania has 20OOO doctors and 50000 priests so they would rather bury you than make you well again.

Romania's ancestors were the local population and romans. For a very long time it was a francophile country ,had big ties with France and still use a lot of the words ,mannerism etc. They also have greek settlements. They were under Turkish rule for years. The west of the country has austrian and hungarian influences.

It's a bit simplistic to reduce it just to it's religion or the period under a communist regime.

I have checked Google images for the EE and it looks like no-one knows what EE really is

"There are "almost as many definitions of Eastern Europe as there are scholars of the region"."

This seems pretty accurate.

Orthodox christianity is main religion only in Russia, Belarus, Ukraine, Bulgaria, Moldavia and Macedonia. Big community in Greece (including Cyprus) then if Romania is Eastern Europe so is Greece, but not Poland, Czech Republic or Hungary.

So I will stand by my point that it means nothing really, however usually there is subtle undertone.

Despite Romania of course*

@lifestooshort123 I agree with much of what you said, sensitive development to create new towns would be a good way forward. However, I think it's important that we grow more of our own food, to be as self sufficent as possible, so a lot of those swathes of countryside and fallow fields you mention will be needed for food production.

Farmers often use immigrant labour for harvesting, and the immigrants stay in temporary accommodation on site. Perhaps if small towns were built in rural areas, some of the young people living in those new towns would be willing to do that seasonal work. As a teenager I used to go strawberry picking. We had to meet at a certain place and a transit van collected us, to take us a few miles to the farm, just out of town. I doubt that arrangement would be legal now, but I enjoyed the work and it felt good to earn my own money.

(BTW I don't live in London and am aware that not everywhere is so densely populated.)

defenbaker
Yes, comfortable accommodation near the agricultural sites makes sense. I seem to remember a thread on here weeks ago about a furloughed guy who volunteered to pick fruit/veg but was expected to travel to Lincolnshire (?) every day at his own expense as no accommodation. Bit vague here but I think the gist is correct!

@ComeOnBabyPopMyBubble

Romania's ancestors were the local population and romans. For a very long time it was a francophile country ,had big ties with France and still use a lot of the words ,mannerism etc. They also have greek settlements. They were under Turkish rule for years. The west of the country has austrian and hungarian influences.

It's a bit simplistic to reduce it just to it's religion or the period under a communist regime.

The part of Romania used to belong to Hungary with a massive number of Hungarians living there. (With many of their rights stripped away eg not being able to use Hungarian names.)

The part of Romania used to belong to Hungary with a massive number of Hungarians living there. (With many of their rights stripped away eg not being able to use Hungarian names.)

You mean they invaded, stripped the local population of their rights, lost the land, invaded again, lost the land, regained half of it, lost the land and finally Romania gained (nearly) all it's territories back?

In fact they are so stripped of rights they have a political Party with right to vote in Parliament, their own tv stations, schools and universities in their own language, cities where they are the majority of the population etc.

If you want to know more of the history of the Hungarian minority in Romania, and Hungary being “stripped of its lands” then the Treaty of Trianon is a good place to start.

@ComeOnBabyPopMyBubble is right on political party, schools etc. I’m not aware of not being allowed to use Hungarian names.

My partner is EE and only lives in the UK because of me, we met in Canada. In Canada and South America where he previously lived he was treated as a European, in the UK he often is treated as an Eastern European. Like you say different to if he were French or Scandinavian, but he is Croatian which I think is considered 'better' because it's a nice holiday destination and they did a good job of renaming/branding the country from Hrvatska.

He hasn't had any issues in the street but at work his boss appreciates him for being a 'good worker' but thinks of him as an uneducated idiot. For example he was shocked that he could calculate VAT and then when my partner said yes I have a degree in economy and ran my own business! He also employees a Serbian girl and they are both paid half as much as the posh English girl and guy that he hired since.

Anyway now the stuff I needed to do in the UK is sorted, we are going back to Canada!

In regards to 'economic migrants' every immigrant even 'ex-pats' are! When I am in Canada I am an economic migrant (I get paid more relative to living costs). My Mum, her brother and two sisters are all economic migrants because they live in Spain, Portugal and Thailand for a lower cost of living to eek out their pensions. Many French come to London to make big bucks in The City. Everyone goes somewhere for a reason, and that doesn't make them 'the wrong sort of migrant'.

Secondly, knowing many EE through my partner, people do not just move to the UK for better wages (which are often eaten up by higher costs) they do so because it is considered a fairer and less corrupt society. But many when they get here are treated differently and go back. Also it costs a lot of money to move to the UK (travel, rent, deposit etc.) which they bring from EE and spend in the UK. It is the middle class well educated who can afford too, 'the cream' as the Polish PM said, not that this should matter but it does surprise a lot of English people that consider anyone who move country to be desperate.

Overall OP before I met my partner I had a lot of respect for EE's, but since I have a real appreciation. I find Croatians and Romanians (who I work with) to be far more easy and fun to socialise and make friends with then a lot of English: outgoing, warm, friendly, generous, hospitable, and a very dark naughty humour. You can meet someone once, and get an invite to stay with them a week later.

P.S. If you fancy a night off from assimilating and are in or near London I thoroughly recommend the Borsch comedy night in Camden once such things are back up and running.

I'm a Finn and have always felt welcomed here. But I do think it's because of our numbers are so small, even combining Sweden, Norway and Denmark, our immigration numbers are vanishingly tiny compared to the influx from EE. And I think that partly explains why EE nations get many people's back up compared to us Scandinavians (well, strictly speaking Finland is not a Scandinavian country but that's for another thread). We are not simply seen as a threat to the housing, school places and employment opportunities in the way that EE nations are.

When I came here in 1997 as a young adult, Scandinavia wasn't seen as a glamorous as it is now. Finland was a very obscure country for most, it's only in recent years after all the Scandi Noir tv-shows and What's the happiest place to be in-polls that Scandinavia seems to have gathered some star dust.

Also, when I came over, there was no official literature translated in Finnish, you either sink or swim, no expectations for hand holding and special treatment. My DH is Welsh, he's most relaxed and accepting person I've ever met but it did irk him when Poland first joined the EU and they had so much done for them in their Polish language here when Welsh had to resort to burning English homes in order to preserve their own language. (broadly speaking). OP I know you are not Polish though and I doubt there's been official literature in Hungarian either.

@ajs88

Have you learnt any Croatian? I don't know if you're planning to have children at some point but to raise them bilingual is such a plus for them. I'm always really envious of the language skills of Europeans, not just EE, all of them, I've never been anywhere in Europe (been to 21 countries in Europe) where I've had the slightest trouble just speaking English, they put us to shame. In fairness, I do think it's easier for them, just because they're surrounded by English, even in their own country, in a way we're not exposed to another language and so it is also harder for us. I'm sure a lot of it is just laziness (or arrogance) we don't bother to learn because others can just learn our language.

well, strictly speaking Finland is not a Scandinavian country but that's for another thread
Finland is not a Scandinavian country???

@JustAVeniceQueen I think you are exactly right. Scandinavians are not seen as radically altering demographic as the same way EE's are, so are not perceived as a threat. Likewise the comparison with people retiring to Spain doesn't work as they don't have children who use Spanish school and become Spanish citizens - they spend their pension then they die. So they don't fundamentally make any chance to the society they inhabit.

I find there is a different mindset between EE (and I am including old Communist countries) including Czech Republic with Latvia etc) where many are very anti establishment (somewhat understandably) and that can make it more difficult to live side by side. My children go to school with many EE and they are very anti religion (excl Poland) and anti rules in general. Our school has designated parking for wheelchairs users and no parking signs in front of access areas. Every day, some cars arrive and park where they shouldn’t. They are always EE. When they are asked to move, they laugh, get aggressive, or shrug their shoulders. They never move. It has become a huge problem that the school really doesn’t know how to police except by having teachers in the Carpark at arrival and home times. Maybe it’s the case in all schools. But it creates differences that separate people. Another example is during lockdown, people avoided our local Lidl because there was no social distancing.

@DonutCone I imagine that British pensioners in Spain use the healthcare system extensively.

On the back of this thread I’m off to google Romania and Hungary’s history plus Finlands’s place or lack of thereof in Scandinavia

Good luck @DrinkFeckArseGirls
Technically Hungary and Romania are not part of the Balkans, but I think Churchill included them when he apparently said that "the Balkans produce more history than they can consume".
My oldest friend in England is Romanian, so I try not to be confrontational about the past.

Interestingly Finland had been a Grand Duchy of the Russian Empire till 1917 but no one says Finnish people are Eastern European.

I went to Finland in the winter of 2018, it was fabulous. In the Arctic circle there seemed to have been quite a few Russians settled there but at the time I didn’t know about the Finnish history so took that on the face value as Finland and Russia are neighbours .

JustAVeniceQueen Are Finnish people have to have Russians living there?

When they are asked to move, they laugh, get aggressive, or shrug their shoulders. They never move. It has become a huge problem that the school really doesn’t know how to police except by having teachers in the Carpark at arrival and home times. Maybe it’s the case in all schools. But it creates differences that separate people. Another example is during lockdown, people avoided our local Lidl because there was no social distancing

I think it depends on the area where you live. We have same problems with parking and no social distancing in Aldi/Lidl and they're British. It all depends on the upbringing and you can find such people in every country.

happy to have NOT have to have