Employer Enforcing Quarantine?

[Dominicgoings]

UK based ( not Scotland) and healthcare setting.

Just had an email to say that anyone who goes abroad on ‘non essential travel’ will have quarantine for 14days on unpaid or annual leave and undergo Covid testing before returning to work.

Reasonable or not?

I wonder if the employer is going to impose the same conditions on UK holidays where the transmission rate is higher than many overseas holiday destinations.

I just cannot see how this is legally enforceable.
It is as legal to holiday abroad( in approved countries) as it is in the UK.

Reasonable

Agree 100% with what @MrsPinkCock has said.

My DH works in the care sector. All staff have been told they are not expected to book any holidays involving travelling on planes or cruises. Obviously it is different if they have had a longstanding booking. They have also been told that they should think very carefully about what social events they are attending eg busy pubs where people might not social distance after having a few, BBQ parties in peoples' gardens etc. They all work with extremely vulnerable people on the shielding list. The action which will be taken if anyone flouts this will be dealt with on a case by case basis -ie no directive has been issued just more of a "think of other people not just yourself". Consequently we are not going to a BBQ birthday party in a friend's garden this weekend.

Having watched Simon Calder on BBC this morning talking about flights, I think people saying that holidaying abroad is safer than holidaying in the UK are spectacularly missing the point. To go abroad, most will be getting onto an airport bus then a plane the a transfer bus at the other end. On BBC this morning Simon was talking about planes serving food and drink - the majority of airlines seem to be doing this. Consequently people are removing their masks. So the risk is that you are in an aeroplane full of people from the UK for 3-4 hours and during that time most people will remove their masks at some point. Nothing like the same risk as driving in your own car to a holiday destination in the UK. I will personally be distancing myself for 14 days from anyone that I know has been on holiday by plane over the coming months.

You need to speak to ACAS. Legally I don't see how this is enforceable.

I'm driving to France in August. I work in healthcare, and the "rules" seem to be that even before quarantine rules were lifted, I could have gone straight back to work on my return as I'm an "essential" worker with professional registration. Ridiculous but true.
Right now, I'm travelling to a country with lower CV rates than the UK (plus I live and work in a high risk area) so there is more chance of me catching it in my normal daily like as on a holiday in France.
If I was told this by my employer I'd fight it, but also I'm in the lucky position where two weeks unpaid leave is completely manageable for me and would actually be quite welcome

@vodkaredbullgirl

We have been told to avoid pubs, beach and going abroad (carer here) Still have to wear masks in shops.

We have avoid covid so far.

Is your employer compensating you for this interference in your non-work time?

@bluefoxmug
germany has recently clarified their employment laws wrt this.
if it is necessary to enforce quarantine & testing for infection control, then this needs to be taken into account by the employee wrt their holiday arrangement.

Got a link for this?

Eh, it is what it is. If you go abroad and have to quarantine why should they pay? I booked a holiday in the hope that it would be withdrawn in time (I'm lucky, my destination was included) but I was prepared from the off to lose the flights cause I can't afford not to be paid for 2 weeks

My DH works in the care sector. All staff have been told they are not expected to book any holidays involving travelling on planes or cruises. Obviously it is different if they have had a longstanding booking. They have also been told that they should think very carefully about what social events they are attending eg busy pubs where people might not social distance after having a few, BBQ parties in peoples' gardens etc. They all work with extremely vulnerable people on the shielding list. The action which will be taken if anyone flouts this will be dealt with on a case by case basis -ie no directive has been issued just more of a "think of other people not just yourself". Consequently we are not going to a BBQ birthday party in a friend's garden this weekend.

How on earth can they legally enforce this?

It's shocking the route we're going - people being punished for what they choose to legally do outside of work. Disgraceful.

@Hiddenmnetter

Eh, it is what it is. If you go abroad and have to quarantine why should they pay? I booked a holiday in the hope that it would be withdrawn in time (I'm lucky, my destination was included) but I was prepared from the off to lose the flights cause I can't afford not to be paid for 2 weeks

But the point is, they're going to countries where they don't need to quarantine by law.

The employer in question is insisting they do.

If you go abroad and have to quarantine why should they pay?

Agree. If you choose to travel to a country on the "red" list, where the FCO advises against travel, then on your own head be it.

On the other hand, if you booked a package deal to Crete last October and are being told by the government that it's safe to go and don't have to quarantine on your return, your employer has no right to make up their own rules.

Or rather, they can make up whatever rules they want but they need to pay you to stay at home.

The OP works in healthcare, so her employer will have a duty of care not just to all its employees, but potentially vulnerable clients. I think it's very reasonable for healthcare and hospitality to impose additional standards to protect their clients, given how badly things could go wrong otherwise.

This is why employment rights in the UK are so bad. Because you all suck up this type of unreasonableness.

If you have booked a holiday to, say, Spain, and the government says "yep, no probs, no quarrantine on return" and the Spanish government says "yep, no probs for UK people coming her and no quarrantine on arrival" how do you think people are going to be compensated for holidays they have booked if their arse of an employer says they can't go or they will be docked pay on return?

It's not, i suspect, legally justifiable. Morally? Meh. in the UK you seem to have a much higher chance of catching COVID-19 than in many holiday destinations.

If more of you were in unions you'd probably have better information about this already.

Reasonable, especially for healthcare workers. It's the risk of bringing in Covid into a high risk environment. Let's not forget that covid rampaged through care homes and hospital wards, infecting people who weren't infected when they first went in. It was the staff who were spreading it!

in the UK you seem to have a much higher chance of catching COVID-19 than in many holiday destinations.

It's not just the destination though is it? By going abroad, you're inevitably coming into contact with people from all over the world in airports, ferry terminals etc. Unless they have separate security lines, separate baggage reclaims, separate passport controls, etc for different countries to keep people separate. You may be flying to/from a country with lower infection rate than the UK but that means nothing if you're in a queue or congested part of the terminal next to someone from USA or Brazil!

To go abroad, most will be getting onto an airport bus then a plane the a transfer bus at the other end.

I (and DH) will be driving the whole way. We usually do it with just one toilet stop (and can take wipes, sanitiser etc) we will then stay at the private villa we booked long before any of this reared it’s ugly head. Yes, we will need to go to the supermarket but we would have been doing that in the U.K. France is not currently on the quarantine list. Insurance will only pay out if the villa owners cancel or if FCO say we shouldn’t travel - it won’t pay out just because of quarantine.

Totally reasonable - people need to factor it into their plans if travelling to somewhere without air bridge or reschedule their holiday

@KatieB55

Totally reasonable - people need to factor it into their plans if travelling to somewhere without air bridge or reschedule their holiday

But this policy includes air bridge countries too.

Although this proposed action is unlawful, who do you think should pay the costs of any cancelled holidays? Insurance won’t pay if the FCO have cleared people to travel to that country. Perhaps the employer will have to pay?

Unreasonable if you booked your holiday pre feb this year. Totally reasonable is you booked your holiday after you knew this shitstorm was happening

Baffled by all those saying it's reasonable

I wouldn’t want to work next to someone who's been abroad on a plane, I think the risk is higher, huge hotels, shared swimming facilities, too much alcohol etc plus the day trips, boat rides, water sports - all mixing with a variety of people from other countries.

People don’t socialise daily at home but they would on holiday.

@GreenTulips

Baffled by all those saying it's reasonable

I wouldn’t want to work next to someone who's been abroad on a plane, I think the risk is higher, huge hotels, shared swimming facilities, too much alcohol etc plus the day trips, boat rides, water sports - all mixing with a variety of people from other countries.

People don’t socialise daily at home but they would on holiday.

Who should bear the costs of enacting your wishes?

I think it is totally unreasonable. If I were going abroad then I would just not tell them where I was going. If asked then I would say that we would probably take a last minute break somewhere in the UK.

Who should bear the costs of enacting your wishes?

The employer, as they're the ones insisting on the quarantine period.

The OP works in a healthcare setting. So perfectly reasonable. All those saying it’s unreasonable, what if it was your sick child she was looking after, or your elderly mother with many underlying health issues?
Unfortunately, we have to live with this virus at present. It may not seem fair, but if you work in a healthcare position, it can be expected that extra precautions will be put in place. I also think that if you work within a healthcare setting, you should actually give a damn, not be indignant at quarantines.
As I said, it may seem unreasonable and unfair, but so is life at the moment. If you have to take unpaid or annual leave, that’s what it is. I can’t imagine employers paying annual leave for a holiday, then paying for you to sit at home when you come back