Employer Enforcing Quarantine?

[Dominicgoings]

UK based ( not Scotland) and healthcare setting.

Just had an email to say that anyone who goes abroad on ‘non essential travel’ will have quarantine for 14days on unpaid or annual leave and undergo Covid testing before returning to work.

Reasonable or not?

[vanillandhoney]

@CuppaZa

The OP works in a healthcare setting. So perfectly reasonable. All those saying it’s unreasonable, what if it was your sick child she was looking after, or your elderly mother with many underlying health issues?
Unfortunately, we have to live with this virus at present. It may not seem fair, but if you work in a healthcare position, it can be expected that extra precautions will be put in place. I also think that if you work within a healthcare setting, you should actually give a damn, not be indignant at quarantines.
As I said, it may seem unreasonable and unfair, but so is life at the moment. If you have to take unpaid or annual leave, that’s what it is. I can’t imagine employers paying annual leave for a holiday, then paying for you to sit at home when you come back

But all of that is irrelevant. The setting, the virus - it doesn't matter. The law is what matters.

And you can't make someone take two weeks of unpaid leave for going abroad on a legal holiday. If you want your employees to quarantine afterwards, you have to pay them for it. You can't just dock their wages!

[853690525d]

Be reasonable. If they have a duty of care and they stick to their principles and it bankrupts them, no one wins. Much better for the OP not to go away, it won't kill her. Whereas the employers may be looking at a likely death toll for the winter and probable surge, and trying to cap it

[853690525d]

I wouldn't want my elderly mum's carer getting on a plane at the moment.

[veritymcpickle]

@CuppaZa but there is no quarantine requirement, by law. The employer can't just make up their own rules.

Someone could take a weeks leave, and stay in the Uk. In that week they could spend a few nights at a campsite using communal facilities. They may head to the coast by train, spend a few days sitting on a packed beach, eat out every night. Because it's their holiday time. Should they quarantine before they return to work?

At the moment my highest risk is from my NHS colleagues in my office, the majority of which travel by public transport everyday. I'm going to feel much safer sitting by my tent in a campsite in Brittany (having driven all the way there) than at work.

[Gwenhwyfar]

@853690525d

I wouldn't want my elderly mum's carer getting on a plane at the moment.

I'm sure you wouldn't, but how can you stop her if it's legal and she wants to go on holiday? The point is that if the employer wants to impose a quarantine that's not a legal requirement, it's for the employer to pay.

[Gwenhwyfar]

" sitting by my tent in a campsite in Brittany (having driven all the way there)"

On the chunnel then? Because if you're going by ferry you have to get out of your car while on the ferry.

[ZombieLizzieBennet]

@853690525d

I wouldn't want my elderly mum's carer getting on a plane at the moment.

Then pay her not to, if you want a say on what she does when she isn't working.

[Brefugee]

if you had booked a 2 week stay at a Gite for your extended family at thousands of pounds - any time up to about February this year - you'd happily suck up losing all that money?

I have heard it all now. As i keep saying MN is the gift that keeps on giving. You'd all be moaning on AIBU at the drop of a hat. And all the replies would ne: no, you're not BU

[veritymcpickle]

@Gwenhwyfar yes on the Chunnel. If that wasn't an option I wouldn't be going abroad this year.

It's perfectly achievable to go abroad and stick to the same sensible social distancing guidelines that I would be following if I'd chosen to have a week in Blackpool or Bournemouth instead.

[ZombieLizzieBennet]

I wonder how the employer would feel about domestic flights?

[853690525d]

19:15ZombieLizzieBennet

No. She's welcome to the job. The conditions are what they are.

[ZombieLizzieBennet]

@853690525d

19:15ZombieLizzieBennet

No. She's welcome to the job. The conditions are what they are.

Indeed, ie that the carer's employer can't prevent her flying.

[KaitK]

Reasonable

[vanillandhoney]

@853690525d

I wouldn't want my elderly mum's carer getting on a plane at the moment.

Luckily, you don't get a say over what she does in her free time.

Going abroad is legal, and for a large number of countries, there are no quarantine restrictions in place. You cannot penalise someone financially for going abroad on a legal holiday!

If it's so dangerous, the employer needs to let the employee take two weeks off on full pay instead.

[853690525d]

If that's their attitude, I wouldn't want them in the role.... We have a horrendous death toll. Our government facilitated that. How unreasonable not to be fine with it.

[Dominicgoings]

The OP is not the one going on holiday

Situation appears to have escalated quickly and those affected are in touch with ACAS, unions etc so I’m taking a step back ( thank fuck 🤪)

[GabsAlot]

a relatives carer is going to spain soon-my family have asked her not to come fro two weeks after but she sellf emplyed so i guess they cna do that

[veritymcpickle]

@853690525d you have a problem with people who work in healthcare having a holiday? Would you be upset if they had two weeks in Cornwall?

[Stellakent]

I'm absolutely amazed that so many people think this is reasonable.

[GreenTulips]

Our government facilitated that

So the selfish population who refused to stay home, who went to underground parties, stormed beaches and had a right to demonstrate had nothing to do with it?

[oblada]

Funnily enough one of my clients (I work in HR) wondered about that. In a slightly different way as it was about the partners of individual travelling and when quarantine was still in place. Care sector.

I suggested they speak to Public Health England. PHE confirmed that as far as they were concerned travelling abroad / being the partner of someone travelling abroad didn't increase the risks of catching covid as other countries are worse than us. So to me that answers the question. Especially now that the quarantine has been removed.
Of course if an employee comes back from a country were the quarantine is still in place then fine, unpaid leave it is. But otherwise no, it's not for the employer to make up some random rules about that.

[Gwenhwyfar]

"ll those saying it’s unreasonable, what if it was your sick child she was looking after, or your elderly mother with many underlying health issues?"

I wouldn't be saying it's fine for everyone else to go on holiday, but you have to do two weeks unpaid leave because of your employer's rules!

[Gwenhwyfar]

@Stellakent

I'm absolutely amazed that so many people think this is reasonable.

MN is generally shit about workers' rights.

[Gwenhwyfar]

@vanillandhoney

Who should bear the costs of enacting your wishes?

The employer, as they're the ones insisting on the quarantine period.

Exactly

[overwork]

It's entirely unreasonable, and I wouldn't be surprised if it isn't dropped before it becomes an issue for you - the unions won't allow it.
If the hospital want to enforce it they will have to come up with jobs people can do from home for the 2 weeks.
Everyone who thinks that is it perfectly reasonable because they are healthcare workers presumably has a plan in place to deal with the burn out all these people who have been working their arses off for the past few months will have now they have to cancel something perfectly legal which they have been looking forward to.