What happens to children over the summer?

[Randomfires]

Have I missed something because I’m sure the government said that there were to be childcare schemes set up but I can’t find anything further on this since early June.

Husband and I are keyworkers and the local holiday summer schemes are all closed. Some of the schools are doing a play scheme but not ours. Really confused as to what we’re meant to do when schools shut in 3 weeks.

@Iwalkinmyclothing

Can childcare vouchers/ tax free childcare support be used to pay non registered providers? That would be odd.

No, you can't use tax free childcare to pay a random person to mind your children

They need to be registered for the scheme as it can only be used for approved childcare

You can get help paying for childcare if it’s provided by a:

<strong>registered childminder, nanny, playscheme, nursery or club</strong>
<strong>childminder or nanny with a registered childminder agency or childcare agency</strong>
<strong>registered school</strong>

home care worker working for a registered home care agency

This is known as ‘approved childcare’.

The rules about how childcare providers become approved are different depending on where you live.

Not sure about childcare vouchers, but I'd be surprised if they were much different

Thanks @lyralalala :)

Childcare vouchers are the same. I was accused upthread of trying to use unregistered childcare with tax credits. I know how both schemes work because you also have to check with vouchers. I know you can't use vouchers OR tax credits with unregistered schemes. This makes it more expensive but if it's a bit more expensive and it's going to keep you your job, it's still worth doing.
I am aware this isn't possible for everyone but saying "it MUST be registered" is also not true for everyone. We have access to one registered scheme and one not and we are having to use both.

@drspouse

Childcare vouchers are the same. I was accused upthread of trying to use unregistered childcare with tax credits. I know how both schemes work because you also have to check with vouchers. I know you can't use vouchers OR tax credits with unregistered schemes. This makes it more expensive but if it's a bit more expensive and it's going to keep you your job, it's still worth doing. I am aware this isn't possible for everyone but saying "it MUST be registered" is also not true for everyone. We have access to one registered scheme and one not and we are having to use both.

Perhaps it's your tone, but earlier in the thread you didn't seem to grasp that some people cannot make it work.

If you don't have the money then you can't pay it. People are already choosing between eating and heating in many cases. Where are they going to find money to just make it work

The whole "just hire a random" needs to be clamped down on because we cannot have employers expecting this of parents. Whilst employers expect that there will be zero pressure on the government to help childcare places get up and running again

@drspouse

Childcare vouchers are the same. I was accused upthread of trying to use unregistered childcare with tax credits. I know how both schemes work because you also have to check with vouchers. I know you can't use vouchers OR tax credits with unregistered schemes. This makes it more expensive but if it's a bit more expensive and it's going to keep you your job, it's still worth doing. I am aware this isn't possible for everyone but saying "it MUST be registered" is also not true for everyone. We have access to one registered scheme and one not and we are having to use both.

accused upthread

You were telling people who are in receipt of tax credits to use unregistered childcare.
You were making it sound simple and you were inferring that we were stupid or putting up unnecessary barriers.
It was clear from your attitude that you had no clue about what you were advising in that scenario.
If you present yourself as an expert then you should expect further questions, especially if we are stressed and unclear regarding our next steps.
You suggested that people on tax credits can afford to pay for any childcare. And that it's easy to find.

You can't make blanket statements / give generalised advice and not be expected to back it up with evidence of your actual knowledge and experience.
You have clearly got the financial freedom to choose any childcare you like. Therefore you should quantify your advice with this before talking down too those with limited options.

Does everyone on this thread except me get tax credits?

We don’t get tax credits. So we are also using a mix of approved and other clubs eg sports camps

No tax credits here, the threshold for one child is very low.

I’ll be taking unpaid leave and I have ten days booked as holiday so I’ll get paid for those days. This means my entire unpaid leave allowance for my son will be used up.

Right, so, no objection to me suggesting solutions that work for people who don't get tax credits?

I don’t get them dr but they aren’t such an obscure concept that the incredulity was believable.

What incredulity?
Not everyone needs Ofsted registered childcare.
Insisting that all suggestions must be Ofsted registered is picky.

@drspouse

The childcare has to be ofstedded for tax credits purposes That's just being picky. If it's a non-Ofsted carer or holiday club vs no care and losing your job, which would you take? My DS can't go to the club at my DD school but a non-Ofsted club he's been to before is running. At least we can use vouchers for DD but we're using this to keep our jobs!

The bit where you suggested that people using tax credits are being picky by not having the option to use non ofsted registered childcare is where you appeared to be talking to people in receipt of tax credits.

I hope you are the spouse and not the doctor with your unwillingness to understand alternatives to your own experience.

Maybe change your username to Marie antoinette....

I’m with you drspouse. Some people don’t want to hear possible solutions though, only problems

To be honest though I would be surprised if two full time key workers with one child (ie the OP) were eligible for childcare tax credits at all?

If you were referring to your own family then the correct form of words is "FOR OUR FAMILY the childcare needs to be ofstedded".
As we have established that not everyone on the thread gets tax credits.
And telling the parent of a child with SEN who has been off rolled, permanently excluded and is now in a school which has no wrap around care, and who's been excluded from several extra curricular activities including Sunday school, that they don't know how hard it is to get childcare, is frankly a bit rich.

There must be lots of play scheme workers (so dbs’d etc) out of work this summer. There must be a way of linking them up with the families that need them

I'm staggered that anyone earning 100k per annum is eligible for childcare vouchers.
If you don't rely on them and can afford to pay for alternative childcare arrangements then it's hardly worth mentioning it here.

I agree it's helpful to make suggestions, although what might work for some may be impossible for others.

EvilPea the adult to child ratio in a play scheme is about 1:6?... so the demand for those staff to work for individual families would outstrip supply I would think. Also factor in the staff that don't want to nanny children in parent's homes.

I think there needs to be more government assistance to enable play schemes and holiday clubs to operate safely. Some areas have their play schemes running for the summer so it is possible.

Yes the numbers mean it won’t help everyone, you’ll also have families that won’t need it this year that normally would use them. But it’s got to help some.

Has tax credits/universal credit dispensed with the requirement for any childcare provider to be registered with the local authority now? Or will they accept a claim of over £1000 for slinging the kids in the direction of a 17 year old who doesn't mind sitting in a stranger's 2 bed high rise between 7.30am and 6.30pm for over a month?

The parent will still have to pay their rent/council tax and other bills as well.

Above all, this will affect the poorest working women.

@drspouse

If you were referring to your own family then the correct form of words is "FOR OUR FAMILY the childcare needs to be ofstedded". As we have established that not everyone on the thread gets tax credits. And telling the parent of a child with SEN who has been off rolled, permanently excluded and is now in a school which has no wrap around care, and who's been excluded from several extra curricular activities including Sunday school, that they don't know how hard it is to get childcare, is frankly a bit rich.

You're 'a bit rich' .

Seriously though, based on your update, it's clear that you have had some challenges and you've had to make some difficult decisions, some of which would have been regarding available provision.

How would you have felt during this process when you were seeking advice if somebody talked down to you and told you that you were being 'picky' whilst trying to make the best decisions for you and your offspring?

Agree the shit will hit the fan with this despite most families trying every avenue they can think of. It will hit women hardest.

I looked into child minding to supplement my SE income until it picks up again. It would suit me better than nannying in someone's home because I have an older child at home. I was surprised that the legal requirements for childminding were so different to nannying.

A nanny needs none of the qualifications a childminder must have;, Ofsted registration (quite expensive) paediatric first aid certificate, plus Ofsted inspections and adaptions made to my home to meet requirements eg downstairs toilet, child accessible hand basins etc. I decided it wasn't a viable temporary job.

Should we ask Mumsnet to run a lobbying campaign? Or write to MPs?
Currently the govt website offers no solutions for childcare for those who have to now go back to work other than suggesting school places or taking unpaid leave.
Opening up the whole economy and suggesting that “people should now be going back to work” but not making any provision for childcare is a typical Tory policy, assuming everyone can afford nannies or have a SAHM....

I'm staggered that anyone earning 100k per annum is eligible for childcare vouchers.
I'm not sure they are (having never been in that position I never needed to know!) but they are an employer benefit like a company car, so usually they aren't particularly income related?

Right a benefit paid for by an employer makes more sense to me. I think I got the wrong end of the stick and assumed some sort of state funded voucher.

@ceeveebee that is appalling. How can low income parents just take unpaid leave? Plus that leaves people open to threat of redundancy. Why isn’t anyone raising this issue further?