What happens to children over the summer?

[Randomfires]

Have I missed something because I’m sure the government said that there were to be childcare schemes set up but I can’t find anything further on this since early June.

Husband and I are keyworkers and the local holiday summer schemes are all closed. Some of the schools are doing a play scheme but not ours. Really confused as to what we’re meant to do when schools shut in 3 weeks.

@drspouse

Very few decent holiday club leaders will risk their reputation recommending people to do a job they haven't seen them do They have seen them look after children. Of course they'd provide them with a reference to look after children! They'd be on really shaky ground if an employee who did their job well applied for a similar job, and they refused to supply a reference. It's completely ridiculous to suggest otherwise.

You write references based on what you know them do - working with groups of children, working with a team of people, their strengths in that area. Never once has any reference I've written outright recommended someone to work as a nanny or off the cuff childminder.

You wouldn't remotely be on a shaky ground either as all you have to give are dates. There's no obligation to give a detailed reference at all.

There are going to be a lot of ad hoc childcare arrangements going on this summer and no sensible organisation is going to want remotely involved in case of any fall out (especially with the amount of downright illegal childminding being offered about)

I find this demonisation of young adults who are certified and experienced really weird (and hilariously blinkered). You do know that your four year old will be one, one day, right? What exactly is it that concerns you?
That the childcarer who is employed as a lifeguard (to literally, y’know, teach tiny kids to swim and save drowning people and look after all the usual first aid scenarios in a complex - slips and falls, nosebleeds, to spinal injuries on water slides) is actually going to be a mad axe murderer and do away with your offspring?)
That the summer camp/ nursery worker 20yo with years of experience as a 1-1 keyworker with children with additional needs (Downs Syndrome, Cerebral Palsy, seizures) is going to lose her mind and forget that she has spent years planning cool activities for the library summer programmes and the term time STEM after school programmes and will suddenly forget that she adores having fun with tinies and will put the tv on and feed them drano?
Who exactly would you deem responsible enough?
No one unless they come in packs?
How do you sleep? The world must be a terrifying place.
(I find this really funny because as a volunteer I am trusted to keep about 120 kids from 5-18 alive, fed and having fun for a weekend, and on two occasions fifteen different sets of parents have allowed me to take their kids to a different continent for two weeks and keep them fed, alive and having fun. With no qualms at all. As a volunteer. In charge. Planning and running all the events.)
I’ve literally lost count of the number of kids that have been entrusted to my care as an unpaid volunteer. Thousands.
My teenagers (and the random 20 yo) are actually more qualified than I am.
My 16yo teaches kids to kayak. 😂
I love mn.

How do you sleep? The world must be a terrifying place.
I do wonder sometimes.

I think what some of you are missing is that an advert saying come and look after my young, vulnerable children! No quals needed, just a clean DBS and refs is like a neon light for people with horrible intentions.

I think what some of you are missing is that an advert saying come and look after my young, vulnerable children! No quals needed, just a clean DBS and refs is like a neon light for people with horrible intentions.

Yes. In their own home and with no other adult supervision. There is much less scope for anything to happen in a club/nursery/group setting. I just couldn't take the risk with young children who might not have the capacity to recognise inappropriate behaviour and tell their parents or who might be scared into silence.

@drspouse

How do you sleep? The world must be a terrifying place. I do wonder sometimes.

How do you sleep? The world must be a terrifying place.

That is kind of how anxiety works

OK you have all the answers and none of the barriers.
Suggest as an expiriment, you try and find an ofsted registered experienced childminder / nanny who will come at short notice to look after kids for the summer holiday during lockdown on minimum wage when most other ofsted registered provision is not running because we're in a pandemic and the insurance and costs of reimagining the set up and procedures are too prohibitive for them to manage.

God there are some really smug patronising and downright spiteful people on here.
Not your problem, so why insist on ripping into people for whom this is a genuine issue?

The childcare has to be ofstedded for tax credits purposes.
Ad hoc students/ teenagers / friends kids/ swimming instructors etc aren't going to cut the mustard when tax credits request their registration number.

And wrt to horror movies, it was sarcasm based on you saying that if you're afraid of strangers in your house you've got a problem. It is a trope for a reason.

And FYI, check out the figures about the percentages of sexual assaults being carried out by people known to the victim.

A dbs could just mean the person hasn't been caught yet, a la Vanessa George nursery worker.
.
Probably doesn't help that I've worked within sexual offending and forensics but I don't have the option of inviting some random to look after my kids and spend time in my home, and even if I did, I don't think I could have such a cavalier attitude towards their care.

The risks of employing a young student or the equivalent "nanny" aren't so much that they'll have malicious/criminal intent but far more likely that they aren't suited to the job or capable.

Most parents on here know how difficult it is to care for young children on your own, day in day out. It's relentless some days.

Add in the fact that children have been stuck at home during lockdown with no school for nearly six months, there is still little open (no soft play, pools etc) , it's unlikely the student will drive/ have a car, or have a network of other nannies to meet up with, or be able to pay for fun outings/treats.

Posters are suggesting these students can be paid minimum wage, no contract, no guarantee they won't walk from the job after a week. A job they perhaps thought would earn them some pocket money over the summer would quickly become the hardest, loneliest summer job ever. I can see a lot of them quitting or being neglectful of the children's health and/or safety as time goes on.

I have teens and although lovely and more than capable of a few hours babysitting would not be able to be a full time nanny to children for a summer. They're far too lazy and selfish for starters. .

It's understandable that parents might entertain this option because there is little alternative right now. They have to find a childcare solution.

It's also completely understandable for parents to have huge reservations and concerns about their children's welfare and the reliability of the teen they've got lying on their sofa scrolling Instagram looking after the dc.

.Although a young person providing ad hoc childcare for less than minimum wage is unlikely to be a child slayer, they are also highly unlikely to be this person;

The 20year-old with years of experience, she's been a 1:1 key worker for children with additional needs (and disabilities) years of experience planning fun summer activities and adores spending time with tinies

Good luck finding that person

The childcare has to be ofstedded for tax credits purposes
That's just being picky. If it's a non-Ofsted carer or holiday club vs no care and losing your job, which would you take? My DS can't go to the club at my DD school but a non-Ofsted club he's been to before is running. At least we can use vouchers for DD but we're using this to keep our jobs!

@drspouse

The childcare has to be ofstedded for tax credits purposes That's just being picky. If it's a non-Ofsted carer or holiday club vs no care and losing your job, which would you take? My DS can't go to the club at my DD school but a non-Ofsted club he's been to before is running. At least we can use vouchers for DD but we're using this to keep our jobs!

If people can’t afford the childcare without the tax credit contribution then they can’t afford it.

It’s not picky. It’s just reality. Where do you suggest people magic the money from?

@drspouse

The childcare has to be ofstedded for tax credits purposes That's just being picky. If it's a non-Ofsted carer or holiday club vs no care and losing your job, which would you take? My DS can't go to the club at my DD school but a non-Ofsted club he's been to before is running. At least we can use vouchers for DD but we're using this to keep our jobs!

If the parent is unable to pay for childcare due to it not being OFSTED registered then the child cannot access the childcare, or the parent will default elsewhere rent/mortgage etc. Not having a pile of spare money is not being picky, its the reality for a lot of people in the UK.

But losing their job due to lack of childcare is going to be a lot worse in the long run.
And yes, I'm aware that some people's budgets are really that tight, but like everyone else, our childcare is also more expensive this summer.

The 20year-old with years of experience, she's been a 1:1 key worker for children with additional needs (and disabilities) years of experience planning fun summer activities and adores spending time with tinies

My DS has SEN and his former TA (experience with disabilities - check) is about 20. Before university he helped at Sunday School/church holiday clubs so yes, about 4 years experience.
I don't think he loves playing with babies (he prefers SEN/primary) but he's got experience down to 4 yo and he's good with our 6 year old too.
I know lots of young teenagers who volunteer with young children, and older ones who do paid work. Not at all unusual. I was actually one myself. I was an au pair aged 20.

But losing their job due to lack of childcare is going to be a lot worse in the long run.
And yes, I'm aware that some people's budgets are really that tight, but like everyone else, our childcare is also more expensive this summer.

If they don’t have it then they’ll have to deal with the long run when it hits. People can’t magic money from nowhere if they actually don’t have it

If it’s the choice between childcare and food people will have to choose food and hope that the benefits system will keep them fed and watered until they can find another job once childcare facilities are open

This is just one dreadful impact of our pandemic. It's awful that parents feel forced to find far from ideal solutions because they have little choice if they want to keep their job.

. I've no doubt that some people might have found a real gem; a young affordable local student brilliant with children available all summer blah blah but it's certainly not the case for all.
There will be plenty of families suffering from the choices they're forced to make though and very below standard cobbled together childcare being accepted.

Yes worst case scenario, a parent could stop work and claim universal credit. That would mean they wouldn't starve but they won't pay your mortgage, you can't run a car, it's a bare minimum to live on. (around £94 a week) It would be an absolute last resort.

That absolute resort is many people's normal though. I'm lucky, there is family money which would solve this issue. Not mine, but I would be given it freely.

None of my friends have savings, family or friends who could lend them money. Any using childcare absolutely rely on government help to pay for this. Luckily most have family support. But for anyone who has neither family/friend support, capacity to get a loan, savings or family money to call on, they're fucked. Universal credit stops being the last resort and becomes the only solution.

I find this demonisation of young adults who are certified and experienced really weird (and hilariously blinkered). You do know that your four year old will be one, one day, right? What exactly is it that concerns you?

That the four year old will still be alive at the end of the summer to grow into a young adult? That would be my primary concern.

Seriously, though, I'd be less worried about the potential for abuse/child murder if I hired an unqualified teenager (which is statistically very unlikely) and more concerned about the potential for serious accidents due to inadequate supervision. Young children need very close supervision, especially around water or by roads. You only need to look away or be on your phone for a minute for something to happen...

@drspouse

The childcare has to be ofstedded for tax credits purposes That's just being picky. If it's a non-Ofsted carer or holiday club vs no care and losing your job, which would you take? My DS can't go to the club at my DD school but a non-Ofsted club he's been to before is running. At least we can use vouchers for DD but we're using this to keep our jobs!

Blatantly Dr Spouse, are you one of those parents who claim the benefits without actually needing them? Are you aware that tax credits can and do make spot checks on bank accounts and occasionally request receipts for the childcare they're paying for? I've been asked on more than one occasion to provide this evidence. It would cause a great deal of problems for me if I started messing about with non registered providers and could trigger a suspension and fine as well as trigger a move to UC which I'd like to avoid as long as possible.

@Herja

That absolute resort is many people's normal though. I'm lucky, there is family money which would solve this issue. Not mine, but I would be given it freely.

None of my friends have savings, family or friends who could lend them money. Any using childcare absolutely rely on government help to pay for this. Luckily most have family support. But for anyone who has neither family/friend support, capacity to get a loan, savings or family money to call on, they're fucked. Universal credit stops being the last resort and becomes the only solution.

I have no family support. I'm a single parent with disabilities. If. I can't pay the mortgage we are screwed. I don't want to put myself and the kids at the mercy of the private rental market so it's imperative I keep my job and also imperative I don't fuck off tax credits by not using them for the right childcare providers.

Sympathy coming from here. Have been mightily po with all the coverage of holidays and subsidised restaurant meals when I have had no benefits and no earnings for 4 months. Music Magpie have been the recipients of masses of old CD's Books and DVD's just to give me a tiny amount of money! Hope something comes along for you OP

@famousforwrongreason you didn't read my post did you?
VOUCHERS. Not tax credits.

[quote drspouse]@famousforwrongreason you didn't read my post did you?
VOUCHERS. Not tax credits.[/quote]
Tax free childcare which has replaced the voucher scheme is available to any family on under 100k.

*Your child must be 11 or younger

The scheme's available to parents of children up to and including the age of 11 (or until they turn 17 if you've children with disabilities). This is lower than the age limit of 15 for the Childcare Vouchers scheme but it's the same for children with disabilities.

Both partners in the household must be working & you'll need to earn at least £140 a week
To qualify, you (and your partner, if you have one) need to be working and earning a minimum of £140 a week – this is the equivalent of 16 hours/week at the national minimum wage for 25-year-olds or over from April 2020. Each parent also needs to earn less than £100,000 a year*

Ergo, you have no clue what it is like to manage on a means tested benefit with prohibitive rules and manage a low income within those rules.

Tax credits are for those on a low income. We don't claim those.
Tax free childcare is for anyone who wasn't on the old scheme.
As I have an 8 year old, we get vouchers from our employers as we have done since the 8 year old was a baby.
Try not to mix up the schemes.
And don't accuse me of fraud.

Can childcare vouchers/ tax free childcare support be used to pay non registered providers? That would be odd.

I really feel for you OP. Round here there are lots of private clubs running - in private schools, football clubs, tennis club, cricket club and dance all running, with limited numbers. Not sure where you are based but Funfest and little sports coaching run in many areas.

Do you both work full time? If not could you do any childcare swaps eg have a friends kids on a nonworking day and then they have yours

@drspouse

Tax credits are for those on a low income. We don't claim those. Tax free childcare is for anyone who wasn't on the old scheme. As I have an 8 year old, we get vouchers from our employers as we have done since the 8 year old was a baby. Try not to mix up the schemes. And don't accuse me of fraud.

Fraud. OK then. Don't deny others our lived experience by dictating how we should use our benefits. acting like you know how the tax credits for childcare scheme works when you actually don't have a clue, then people won't get confused by what scheme you are telling us how to use.