People who've never had friends

[Somethingorotherorother]

NCed for this because i have a feeling i know people on here in real life...

Basically, a woman i know vaguely through work projects recently friended me on FB - her account was full of posts bemoaning the fact that she's never had friends, always gets excluded etc etc... i can well believe it, she's a shrill, irritating nightmare and i have literally only heard her talk about herself.

It's a weird trend I've seen a lot of online, here, on reddit, LOTS of places, and people always end up commiserating with the person complaining, saying that other people are just jealous, or they're "mean girls" or insecure etc etc... surely if you're continuously being dropped from friendship groups wherever you go, it's an issue with you, not with them?

How do these people not realise that? And why does the rest of the anonymous internet pander to them, when they're so willing to pile on everyone else!? AIBU to think it's a bizarre circlejerk of validation that is basically unique to this issue?

There's a saying that if you only meet arseholes then it's likely that you're the arsehole, but I don't think it's quite as clear cut as this.

We live in a culture that celebrates extroverts and if you're introverted, have social anxiety, ADHD or are on the autistic spectrum then the odds are against you.

Churchill is quoted as saying something about how in your 20s you're worried about what other people think of you, in your 40s you stop caring what other people think about you and in your 60s you realise no one ever was thinking about you in the first place. I think there's a lot of truth in this and ultimately it's the key to making friends. Making the realisation that people are wrapped up in their own worlds. They may be sympathetic to your problems but ultimately it's all about them.

In a nutshell, Extroverts talk, Introverts listen. Gauge your audience; complaining about your problems to an extrovert won't win you a friend.

I'm naturally extrovert but have learned to button it if I want to maintain a friendship with another extrovert. I have one friend of nearly 30 years who, apart from the obvious unmissable truths, knows nothing about how I tick whereas I know everything about her. She's entertaining and kind and 100% reliable which is why she's still my friend. Also, I can "take the night off" with her and don't have to prompt the conversation as I do with more introverted friends.

A pyschatrist told me once that most people can only maintain about 4 close friendships and that people who report having 10 or so close friends were unlikely to have meaningful relationships.

But equally no friends ever is....odd.

Its all very well saying it must be the person. That person might realise this. However, this doesn't mean this person knows what to do about it. I certainly don't.

I have known for a while that I'm the weird one. I must be. All groups have one apparently and I've never known it to be anyone else. Also I make friends and socialise, but as soon as the common denominator (school, workplace, club etc) has disappeared so does the friendship. I do try to keep it going by sending the odd message saying hi and asking how they are, but after me initiating 2 or 3 chats over a period of a couple of months I give up.

Do I know what to do about this? No. I shall forever have acquaintances and never close long term friends. Maybe I smell (although I shower every day - sometimes twice if I've been running or to the gym and always wear clean clothes), I dont slag ANYONE off (even if they've annoyed me in some way), I smile and join in chats etc. I really am at a loss as to why I can't keep friends, but hey ho

Why have you started a thread to slag off a woman you “vaguely” know OP? It must be because it makes you feel superior. Maybe give this woman a chance and get to know her? Maybe she will be less “shrill” if people care about her and befriend her.

And yes, people do get jealous of others, and yes it ruins friendships. Jealously is not something people will admit to, but it happens a lot.

I don't agree that people who don't have friends it's always a problem with them.

Some of the most horrible people I know are surrounded with friends. These are people who gossip and slag their so called friends off behind their backs. They are bitchy, judgemental, unreliable, moody and generally unpleasant. But still have many friends.

I know other people who are some of the nicest, kindest people I know, but don't have many friends because they are seen as uncool, dull, weird.

My dh doesn't have many friends, he's very kind, gentle, generous, but he doesn't have a big personality, he isn't much of a talker.

Then you've got the people who are lovely people and very naturally likeable, but others who are still lovely people but aren't naturally likeable.

Relationships are very complicated you can't just say everyone who doesn't have friends is not a nice person.

So the problem frequently seems to be moving from "friendly" to friendship. One thing is as we all move through life our need to makes friends lessens. If my old boss was right and the average person can maintain 3-5 close friendships, there is only going to be a space in their friendship group rarely. If you happen to have 3 spaces then there is a mismatch, the person who already has 4 good friends isn't really looking and won't do much of the running whereas the other will. There are lots of reasons someone can end up in mid adulthood with a few empty spaces (lots of geographical moves, additional caring responsibilties as others have said bullying or bad experiences. I have the same 3 besties for the last 15 years (one for 36 years- I am 44). Just writting this I can think of another 6 or 7 women I have met in the last 5 years who I could have become close to but didn't because my friendship need was already fufilled.

So, why aren’t you dashing over to be the friend of the nice, kind, but friendless people you know, @Chaosreigns123? Do you also view them as ‘dull, uncool and weird’?

I mean, people are behaving as if friendships are some kind of virtue competition, when surely it comes down to whether someone interests you or not, regardless of whether they are kind?

“Body keeps the score” a book about childhood trauma. This will help you understand why some people find it hard to make friends. If you’ve been abused by a family member as a child then you are less likely to have the capacity to let people close to you. In my case anyway, not everyone will be like this but so far the book rings true to me

First off to clarity what is meant by "friends": I assume we're talking about proper close call at 3am if necessary friends, as opposed to people you socialise with or FB friends?

The reason I ask is that they are slightly different skills. Collecting large groups of "friends" who you can go to the pub with or hang out with is something which comes more easily to extroverts because they are more skilled at projecting themselves and networking. And the ability to do this bears no relation whatsoever to your moral fibre and quality as a friend, its purely down to confidence. Anyone who can hold their own at a party can have lots of "friends" and they can be complete dicks.

The more durable kind of friendship, the 3am call kind, takes a different set of skills and works at a different level. And I don't think its as easy for extroverts and blowhards to maintain this sort of friendship: this is where qualities like loyalty, ability to properly listen and shared values come into play. This sort of friendship tends to weed out the people who are good at collecting but not good at staying the course.

I think a lot of people look at others lives and mistake the former for the latter.

This is all a bit irrelevant to the OP's post but I think the "skill" of making friends (which some people are naturally better at than others but can be learned) is not as straightforward as it sounds. It's often said that there are people who are good at this and people who aren't. But it depends on the kind of friendship you are looking for.

They are different reasons why people may be friendless, but to assume it's always the person's fault is victim blaming.
Lack of friends could be due to shyness, social anxiety, being abused which have made them struggle with making / keeping friends.
And yes you get people off the internet agreeing as you get to reach out with a bigger group of people not just the morons in your home town who have sided with the popular but nasty bullies and ignore you.

Yes jealously is a issue, I have lost a friend who was jealous of me as I wasn't her quiet single side kick mate anymore. Other friends gave been jealous for different reasons and it ruined our friendship.

Fake loud ppl tend to have lots of mates, I know awful people who are popular , yet they have friends. These people also fall out with friends a lot too but it's nothing to them as they make friends easy.

You need to open your mind OP.

It was popular to be audiences at hangings, popularity isn't right people who are popular aren't nice and great and people who don't have friends are not always bad and too blame

Some of the most horrible people I know are surrounded with friends. These are people who gossip and slag their so called friends off behind their backs. They are bitchy, judgemental, unreliable, moody and generally unpleasant. But still have many friends

Exactly this.

I know many examples of this type of person - and when it comes down to it, they only have the appearance of many friends. None of these are real friendships. It’s incredibly fake.

You do sound like one of them OP.

Just because someone has lots of friends, doesn’t make them a nice person. Just like someone not having many friends doesn’t make them the problem.

But i bet if they were to post online about how they have no friends, they'd be met with a chorus of people telling them that other people are just nasty jealous bitches.

Maybe it's just the people you know?

The people who have posted on MN about not having any friends actually seem really nice.

You sound very judgemental OP. I think your thread is going to make some people feel really crap, well done.

As someone that has gone through life dealing with the aftermath of bullying, acute shyness (for half of my childhood I was afraid to talk because I was so shy), and bipolar disorder, I can completely understand how people can go through life without friendships. When I met my ex he took on board all of these things and helped me to become more confident and actually taught me how to make friends. It turned out, it wasn't my personality flaw but the people I was trying to be friends with just weren't the people I was compatible with. Also, it's bloody hard work and you have to be committed. We broke up 4 years ago and since then I have to admit I've pretty much gone back go the way I was before but I have a new partner now who is equally shy and struggles and I have to say it's nice being with someone who understands the why I am the way I am and doesn't see me as a problem to fix.

@Lancrelady80

*Others struggle in social situations and don't have an innate understanding of the best way to chat to people they don't know, or find small talk hard. They aren't disliked, but perhaps don't quite bridge the gap between small talk with acquaintances and developing friendships.*

This. People quite happy to chat and smile and say hello...agree it would be good to get together for a coffee.. must swap numbers.. but somehow it never actually happens.

Also bullied, also worried about what people think of me, also don't want to be too pushy. Can't work out how to take things to next level.

I can relate to these points. Whenever I do make a friend they have usually taken the lead. Otherwise I get stuck at the acquaintance stage and give up.

I had a decent childhood but my parents were very insular and there was a lot they weren't able to model for me because of this. I left full time education without the first clue how adults with no history or shared experiences form friendships. Still don't know more than 10 years later.

The people who have posted on MN about not having any friends actually seem really nice.
That’s what I think too @Cadent . In fact I always think that about the people who post worrying they have no friends. People shouldn’t be so hard on themselves about how many friends they have, because to be honest not many people make good friends. A lot of seemingly good friendships are pretty flimsy when the going gets tough.

And despite what the OP thinks, people get very jealous. I think if the OP has some astounding success in her life one day, she may notice a significant shift in her acquaintance tally.

to assume it's always the person's fault is victim blaming. Lack of friends could be due to shyness, social anxiety, being abused which have made them struggle with making / keeping friends.

You are conflating two entirely different things here. None of the reasons you list for why people struggle with friendships are 'victim-blaming' -- they are, as you acknowledge, reasons why someone might not have friends. But they are reasons to do with the person him or herself, not other people being unfriendly or socially exclusive.

It's not the friendless person's fault they were bullied, but if it means they behave in ways which are not conducive to making or keeping friends, it certainly isn't the fault of the people around them, either. If I meet someone and they never respond to ordinary social overtures, or bolt away if I address them, all I know is they don't welcome being talked to. I can't know whether a virtual stranger is shy, agoraphobic, doesn't like me, or would simply prefer to be left strictly alone.

If they want to change the situation, they can't expect strangers to keep trying with them again and again -- they need to work on themselves.

I am always very interested by the fact that so many of the people who post on here about being friendless all their lives have partners and spouses. What differentiates friendships from romantic/sexual relationships?

The people who have posted on MN about not having any friends actually seem really nice.

And it's very possible that they are, but if all someone at a baby group or the school gate gets is someone who is visibly very uncomfortable being talked to, or who never responds to any conversational overtures, they have no idea what's going on inside the shy/anxious.bullied person, and are unlikely to persevere. And that's not anything to criticise them for -- after all, they aren't psychic.

What differentiates friendships from romantic/sexual relationships?

I can only speak from my own experience but I also struggled with getting boyfriends due to shyness, and the "frenenemy" would sometimes discourage certain guys from dating me due to jealously etc.
The men who I did date were abusive. My hubby has been horrid to me in the past but over time I got more self esteem and stopped putting up with it and he has changed.

So yeah In answer to your question my friendships and romantic relationships had similarities and my shyness put potential partners off and the boyfriends I did have took advance of my low self esteem and shyness to benefit them.

Defo them..... sad but true.

I went from 21 to 27 without having a single friend. It wasn’t like I was being dropped from friend groups, and I never had any issue attracting people who WANTED to be my friend on the rare occasions I was forced to socialize, it was really a side effect of undiagnosed MH issues as a teenager when I made bad friends, and therefore learnt that friends werent a good thing and I was better off alone. I therefore became incredibly comfortable in my own company - travelled alone, ate in fancy restraunts alone, clubbing alone. It wasn't until I finished uni, got a job and developed some hobbies that I started to learn that friendships could actually be enjoyable.