To think care home bosses should take some responsibility for Covid infections in homes

[JustAsking1837]

This is just in response to criticism over Boris Johnson's comments. Sorry if this has already been done but I've not found any threads on this surprisingly. I am no fan of Boris or the Government but day in day out I have listened to the press savagely criticise the Government no matter what it does or doesn't do and is blamed for everything. However everyone is in uproar when Boris has suggested that many care homes may have not done everything they should have to prevent infections. I am not necessarily saying they are to blame, as I don't know, but think it should be fair game for discussion.

What specifically do you think they should’ve done?

I suppose you could argue that to some point if they had refused to get PPE etc, but I think it was really difficult for a lot of them to get PPE - they were paying private prices and being given lower priority than the NHS from suppliers. It's normal for care homes to have gloves and aprons, it's not normal for them to have to be told by suppliers that they are not available. It's not normal to have surgical masks available in a lot of settings, and in fact the initial guidance wa that a mask was only needed if someone was symptomatic.

If they ignored guidelines, then yes, they bare responsibility. If, like a lot of care homes, it was a struggle to get PPE to match guidelines which invariably changed at 5pm on a Friday afternoon, then I don't think blaming care home bosses is fair.

I think you are being U. If it was wise and necessary for care homes to have months of PPE suitable for a pandemic in stock at all times, then it should be the law and checked up on by the care quality commission. It wasnt.

If the government wants high quality care for vulnerable elders then it could start by insisting councils pay their fair share of social care costs and work out a long term strategy for funding it like it's been promising to for 10 years.

If the patients had been tested for CV-19 when they left hospital the lack of PPE would not have had such an impact.

Ultimately everything that went wrong comes down to the government's abandonment of mass testing.

The government continued to ignore cries for help and clearer guidelines from our sector. They initially refused to test our residents and staff, then agreed but with no initial clear testing procedure.
Tests were constantly lost or broken in transit and took days, sometimes weeks to come back. Staff were told they could only be tested in the first few days of displaying symptoms, then only if they could drive and then they had miles and miles away and sat in their car for hours queuing. And that's if they managed to get a slot!
The PPE guidelines changed almost daily. One week we were told to get one type mask, which we then got thousands of. The next week we were told they weren't good enough and faulty so we had to destroy them.
I think it's beyond disgusting that the people who are looking after some of the most vulnerable in our society are now becoming the scapegoats for governmental failures. They not only have worked above and beyond and put their own lives in danger but they have lost people they loved.
The people we look after become our family and this is a slap in the face.

It’s not normal for care homes to receive patients from hospitals who have an infectious disease.

The care homes were not treated as important enough to require PPE and they were unable to obtain any.

In the early stages they truly were a forgotten service and a dumping ground in order to save the hospitals.

I run a care home and we haven't had it touch wood. But we are in a county with a very low number of cases.

It astounds me that people like you and the government are too thick to realise residents in care homes are more vulnerable health wise and therefore more likely to contract it and more likely to die from it.

My DF died from Covid in a care home and whilst I completely hates the place for many reasons, I don’t think they could have acted differently in the crisis.

Their staff and residents were dropping like flies, the only PPE they had were paper masks and plastic aprons ( in hospital staff had full PPE for known virus cases by then). The care the residents required meant social distancing was impossible and the layout of the building would have made distancing impossible in many areas and also very difficult to keep properly cleaned.

So no, they needed more support desperately. I’m sure many of the staff will suffer from PTSD after what they experienced.

My FIL is in another nursing home and that was extremely well resourced. He still got the virus (and recovered at 92!). They are now too scared to reduce their strict rules and the residents are getting virtually no visits and no social time. He’s been a ‘prisoner’ in his room for months. So that’s pretty shit too.

Boris needs to apologise.

This is actually just making you sound extremely ignorant.

Care Homes were like lambs to the slaughter. It was policy for patients to be released back into care homes from hospital without being tested for Covid up until very close to the peak. Care homes had their contracts threatened (meaning they’d be closed) if they didn’t allow these residents back or sometimes if they closed to new admissions. It took a long time for staff to be able to obtain tests. I’m going to name and shame here...companies like Gompels were refusing to sell PPE to not just new customers but long term smaller homes. It was exceptionally difficult for small homes to obtain PPE and the government did nothing to help with the supply chain until after the peak.

The government is the guilty party. Through and through.

Haven’t you got a shitty nappy to attend to Boris??

We locked down well before Boris told us to. We have so far kept covid 19 out of our home.

It pissed me right off that care homes are to be blamed.

Sure. We can discuss. Whose fault do you think it was that care homes couldn't get hold of affordable PPE? Both screen shots from 1-2 April.

My friend who works in a care home had Covid 19 in March.

She told her boss during the early part of the shift that she didn't feel well, had some suspicious symptoms but his was adamant it was "nothing" and made it clear she was expected to stay at work. A couple of hours later she really was poorly and insisted on going home, so yes, that Care Home manager bears some responsibility for all the deaths they had in that home, i doubt it's a unique example, knowing what I know of labour practices in care homes.

OTOH, when she did apply to have a test, she had to drive 70 miles to get it, "with the worst flu she'd ever had" and the result took 5 days. That was definitely down to government.

I have some inside information about this - there are STILL care homes who are refusing to test residents and staff. If the CEO of a large number of care homes say no, they do not get tested. This is criminal. All care home should have to test staff and residents at least once. I know it is difficult and stressful for residents, particularly dementia patients, but so is dying.

Is that you Boris?

Care homes were forced to take infected patients back from hospital and care for them there instead of hospital, without any help, it would have been impossible to isolate them when they needed 24 7 care. They were refused tests for patients, and staff. They were completely left to fend for themselves while all available resources that could have helped were diverted to the NHS. If you have any specific examples of them not following guidelines then of course you have a point. If the NHS had done its job and looked after sick old people instead of protecting itself then I don't think the death rates would be half as bad

Care homes had no control over accepting patients from hospital who hadn’t been tested-it was lambs to the slaughter.

@namechangenumber204

I have some inside information about this - there are STILL care homes who are refusing to test residents and staff. If the CEO of a large number of care homes say no, they do not get tested. This is criminal. All care home should have to test staff and residents at least once. I know it is difficult and stressful for residents, particularly dementia patients, but so is dying.

I been thinking about this today, I'm not sure it's in the best interests of care home residents to not acknowledge that not all homes are the same. Those who have contributed to the problem can hide behind blaming the government and get off scot free - this is an example of what I worry about.

Care Homes who took steps to protect residents in February and early March were threatened by councils who placed residents there that they would lose their contracts as they weren't following guidelines, so they had to back down.

Care Home managers who asked for tests in March and early April had PHE say sarcastic things to them and put the phone down on them.

This information and others that PPs have posted is not hard to find out.

@WaterOffADucksCrack You took the words right out of my mouth. I work in a private care home as Admin staff and couldn't agree with you more.

We were pushed by hospitals to take people who had been in hospital ill with Covid. (they had tested positive) without testing negative. The hospital would want to get them out a week after a positive test with no further test/no negative test. My boss would stall them until two weeks after a positive (tell them staffing issues etc).

The hospital would not test on release they would say "we don't keep testing them". I would think "I bet you would bloody test them if they were coming to live at your house!

Not sure if it has changed yet but for some time resident testing/whole home testing was only available to elderly/dementia care homes. Our client group is learning disabilities. Lot's of people with learning disabilities have underlying health issues/fragile health.

Over the past 6 weeks care homes have been forced to test all staff, especially, if they reported on a daily basis that there were no Covid cases (which could indicate a cover up).

For the past month, agency staff have been made to have a test every fortnight before being allowed to enter new homes in my LA.

As of today all care homes have been asked to register so that staff will be tested every 7 days and residents every 28 days.

All too little, too late.

Meanwhile...NHS staff STILL aren’t being tested. I know several paramedics, not one has been able to get a test.

Most care homes have done everything in their gift to protect people. They were fairly powerless in the face of the government decisions.

I have some inside information about this - there are STILL care homes who are refusing to test residents and staff. If the CEO of a large number of care homes say no, they do not get tested. This is criminal. All care home should have to test staff and residents at least once. I know it is difficult and stressful for residents, particularly dementia patients, but so is dying.

That is bs - it's not up to care home bosses if staff & residents get tested or not. All staff can get tested at any of the testing centres even without symptoms without needing permission from their manager. Many residents in care homes have capacity to consent or refuse to testing - that's their decision and mandatory testing of all is not legally required.

I have some inside information about this - there are STILL care homes who are refusing to test residents and staff. If the CEO of a large number of care homes say no, they do not get tested. This is criminal. All care home should have to test staff and residents at least once. I know it is difficult and stressful for residents, particularly dementia patients, but so is dying.

That is bs - it's not up to care home bosses if staff & residents get tested or not. All staff can get tested at any of the testing centres even without symptoms without needing permission from their manager. Many residents in care homes have capacity to consent or refuse to testing - that's their decision and mandatory testing of all is not legally required.

Care homes were forced to take people from hospital that weren't tested. The home my father in refused to take hospital patients (they realised where this was headed...) and were threatened with legal action!

That home kept Covid out until last week. They were very brave and saved lives.

I cannot actually believe that anyone could actually sink any lower than to blame some of the most vulnerable people (staff and residents).

Why do you think the press might be wrong?

Is it too terrifying for you to accept that Boris and the government etc. mismanaged their response to the pandemic quite as badly as they did?

They have blood on their hands.