Gymnastics and elite sports bullying allegations

[BackInTime]

Following the story about allegations of bullying and abuse in gymnastics

news.sky.com/story/british-gymnastics-admits-error-for-not-telling-girls-parents-about-abuse-claims-12023055

Too often I think parents are afraid to question coaches for fear of reprisals. AIBU to think that parents need to be more careful of how far coaches push their DC in some cases and that it is not always a healthy environment?

It's very sad, and makes me wonder if there's an 'athlete a' situation brewing here.

Young kids doing very long hours at a gym in a highly competitive environment, where (usually) parents/guardians are not allowed to watch training sessions. It does seem to be an easy route for abuse. Poor kids.

I remember having this conversation with a friend (a head teacher, so you'd think well aware of Safeguarding) when the early allegations in football came out.

Her son had played a sport at a very high level and been given some amazing opportunities. She said that, to her shame, if he'd come back from a trip saying he didn't want to go back because he didn't like the coach (or something similar) she would probably have done her best to persuade him not to throw away the opportunity. So, you can absolutely see how parents would "let" these things happen.

I mean, if he'd told her specifically of abuse she wouldn't have tolerated that but if he couldn't articulate why he didn't want to go back..

I also see it quite a lot parents keenness for their DC to do well and seize opportunities can get caught up in it all and it might blind them to actually seeing what's going on. There is a lot of pressure to say yes to everything, yes to every training camp or competition and parents are both emotionally and financially heavily invested. Kids pick up and this and are afraid to speak up and to disappoint.

Happens in all sports.

I pulled my dd from a club that coached in a way I did not like- fat shaming, ignoring, bullying etc. Didn’t help much as although things are better on a local front, national teams are pretty much the same.

Too many crystal balls, too much giving kids funding too young- some of these 13 to16 year olds are on an adult salary- which then puts adults in further power with the threat of losing funding if they don’t do x and y.

Lottery funding hasn’t helped young athletes at all.

I have to admit I have been uncomfortable with mine getting seriously into gymnastics. I realise it is brilliant for many and a real passion for some but watching the older girls train at my club put me off ever letting mine go down an elite route. I didn’t ever see anything abusive as such but I have seen some young girls being properly shouted at and pushed to tears. Where that sort of pressure and coaching style is normalised, I can see how it would be too easy to cross the line from ‘tough’ coaching into something more abusive.

I think it's important to remember that these stories are from a number of clubs throughout the whole county and we shouldn't tarnish the sport of gymnastics with the same brush. It's a shame for those coaches and athletes who do things by the book and get dragged down with the rest!
Breaks my heart to know that these kind of things happen

The new Netflix programme will give it oxygen hopefully.

Abuse happens in every sport at every level, the safeguarding training is super depressing. What you can do is check clubs safeguarding procedures and risk assessments and have regular discussions with your children (at an age appropriate level) about consent and autonomy, not having secrets etc etc

Abuse happens in every sport at every level, the safeguarding training is super depressing. What you can do is check clubs safeguarding procedures and risk assessments and have regular discussions with your children (at an age appropriate level) about consent and autonomy, not having secrets etc etc

Safeguarding in sport is useless when you’re reporting the abuse to the abusers.

Within most sports the safeguarding lead is someone with fingers in the pie- which is how this has happened. They’re reporting British Gymnastics Coaches to British Gymnastics, who effectively investigate themselves and find no problems.

The safeguarding lead for dd’s sport is the person responsible for junior national squad. You can’t report because you risk your child’s selection, and they have the power to pretty much blackball you and completely quash any complaint.

Many adults can’t see emotional abuse and coercive control until too late, we can’t expect children to realise this isn’t normal discipline, they’re too used to doing what adults say. So they don’t even recognise it’s abuse.

Safeguarding is not fit for purpose in sport.

That's what happens when entire sports are funded on the number and colour of Olympic medals.

It's very sad, and makes me wonder if there's an 'athlete a' situation brewing here.

Of course there is. No way that isn't happening all over the country.

Within most sports the safeguarding lead is someone with fingers in the pie- which is how this has happened. They’re reporting British Gymnastics Coaches to British Gymnastics, who effectively investigate themselves and find no problems.

Same with all our institutions. NHS do that. Police do that. Government.

I mean, I read today that the police officer who fatally shot Jermaine Baker - for raising his hands as instructed (the officer is on record stating that he shot him for raising his hands, which recordings evidence was what the officer had just told him to do) - has accused the IOPC of an "abuse of power" for trying to start misconduct proceedings (not even criminal proceedings, just misconduct proceedings).

Really? Who abused their power in that scenario? How much more obvious can It get that police culture is toxic when an officer who killed a man for complying with instructions thinks facing consequences for that is him being abused?!

The Met's reaction to Bianca Williams speaking out about being dragged out of a car for no reason was to put out a statement defending the officers and making what would appear to be false claims about Williams and her partner. They have now buckled to pressure because of Williams' profile and self referred to IOPC but you can guarantee that would not have happened if she did not have a public profile. Most people being mistreated by the police do not have a voice like she does.

If the NHS fucks up they investigate themselves and tell you "nah, we didn't do anything wrong, you are mistaken" . I could list examples but it would be too depressing.

This is our culture - we set up our institutions in ways that enable people to abuse others with impunity.

@user1965785412

I don’t understand- Is the IOPC part of the police then? I thought they were independent, which also seems to be what you’re saying?

So if the IOPC is an independent, the police don’t investigate themselves.

Which is it?

Plus the police and nhs deal with adult employees.

These are kids.

The safeguarding lead for dd’s sport is the person responsible for junior national squad. You can’t report because you risk your child’s selection, and they have the power to pretty much blackball you and completely quash any complaint.

I guess this is where parents have to make a choice and put child's welfare before selection worries or anything else. How many parents have taken tearful, reluctant children to sports, dance or music practices where they hate the coach because they shout at or pick on them? Coaches who threaten to drop them if they miss training or practices if injured or unwell. We say it's for their own good, to make them better, no pain no gain and all that.

Sadly I'm not remotely surprised, elite sport is about winning at all costs.

People are picked up, trained to ridiculous and extreme levels, told that they need to win and anything less than that is a failure and then dropped when it suits.

It's horrific and has long term effects.

On a related (but much less severe) note, we had to ask parents repeatedly, at junior park run not to shout at their crying children if they didn't want to run or couldn't run faster.

It's supposed to be fun and enjoyable - this mentality breaks people.

So kids should just not do sport because the people supposed to safeguard them can’t or won’t?

I am happy with our club. Not so happy with the NGB. But it’s the NGB that investigates any complaint I make.

The Jobs of the adults in the NGB depend on lottery funding. Which depends on medals. No medals, no funding. So bottom line is they care more about medals that the welfare of athletes. It’s about the money.

Sport needs an external body where complaints are investigated properly, not ignored because that coaches kids are winning.

Where is the line between bullying and doing what's needed to create future champions though? "We" bemoan the fact that we don't win things but object to our young athletes been pushed hard.

Personally, I never encouraged sport beyond a kick around in the park for this reason. It didn't seem healthy to give so much time and energy to one interest, but obviously if you're going to be good at it you have to and I know others disagree and think the discipline and commitment needed is a good thing.

Within most sports the safeguarding lead is someone with fingers in the pie- which is how this has happened. They’re reporting British Gymnastics Coaches to British Gymnastics, who effectively investigate themselves and find no problems.

Athlete A on Netflix is a useful watch for showing how internal reporting can just lead to cover ups. It also shows how parents can end up feeling they have to accept training because that is how it is done (TW - given the topic there is a lot about physical, emotional and sexual abuse so go in expecting a hard watch).

Where is the line between bullying and doing what's needed to create future champions though? "We" bemoan the fact that we don't win things but object to our young athletes been pushed hard

The line is anything you wouldn’t expect from a teacher, partner or workplace environment.

If you were at work and your manager screamed in your face, in public, about how you are shit, wasting their time and to leave until you were ready to apologise?

Or your partner weighed you 5 times a day to make sure you weren’t putting on weight?

If your employer made you repeat the same task over and over for an hour and then told you you were shit?

Coaches don’t “create” future champions. That comes from within the child, they have to want to do the work. If they don’t, the coach can’t fix that by bullying, they’ll quit.

It’s the same as domestic abuse. That is often a difficult line to see when you’re in it.

Bullying coaching doesn’t make winners. It breaks them. The ones that win are the ones who last longest.

Ok, if the line is you wouldn't expect it fro teachers, how do we get champions? Teachers mostly create very average clones. I am one, I'm not being derogatory about teachers, the framework we work to has a very standard set of expectations, it's unusual produce a really exceptional student from the ordinary school system.

I know all the theories about bullying not creating winners but if that's the case, how do those coaches become so successful?

I know all the theories about bullying not creating winners but if that's the case, how do those coaches become so successful?

Because we care more about the winning than the children so don't question the methods enough. One of the women in Athelet A had a great quite along those lines but I forget the exact words.

Yes, I understand that, but if the methods don't work, as PP said, the coaches wouldn't be successful.

Yes, I understand that, but if the methods don't work, as PP said, the coaches wouldn't be successful.

Short term success. Self fulfilling. A coach produces two or three kids very quickly who win everything. Those kids break but now the coach has a line of kids wanting in the squad. They all improve very rapidly, confirming the perception of the coaches ability.

The ngb wants medals, so they buy into it as well. Those kids get all the junior international assignments, win a few medals, break, the next one steps in. As performance drops off - which is always the kids fault for not being “tough enough”, eyes move to the next shiny youngster.

Meanwhile the coaches who develop in a slower, healthier way are ignored because their youngsters aren’t winning. They’re seen as not as good, but no one thinks about 5 years when they are still healthy and competing.

It isn’t successful long term. GB has dominated junior competition in gymnastics for years. That hasn’t translated to senior success, we’ve had the odd exception.

Must say I was surprised at it being described across the board as bullying. I did gymnastics in Germany 20 years ago and physical correction of the splits not being far enough was the norm. Weight is an issue due to the power:weight ratio, although public weighing twice a day is a bit bizarre.