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To hate the excuse “she got out before we could spay her”

282 replies

Soubriquet · 07/07/2020 13:21

With cats

It’s never, “we wanted one litter” “or we thought she would make a good mum” even though these are awful excuses its always “she got out before we could spay her and we didn’t know she was pregnant”

Someone I know, her cat has just had kittens. I haven’t said anything as it’s none of my business, but I know this would be her excuse

Seriously, spay your cats! They can get pregnant from 4 months of age. That isn’t fair to what is essentially a teenaged mum. Vets will spay from 4 months. No need to let her have a season unlike dogs

Neuter your toms. They will roam for miles fighting other males if left intact. They will stalk females and yowl for them.

OP posts:
lyralalala · 07/07/2020 20:24

A lot of people don't seem to realise the danger their cat is in being mated and having kittens. Cat mating is brutal.

The vet fucked up spaying my girl. She had a hernia and the surgery for that was more complicated than anticipated and they basically forgot to do it.

She came in one night in a terrible mess and we thought she'd had a run in with a fox. She was tiny, but fat because several neighbours fed her (to my annoyance). When she got fatter I had more words with the neighbours. It wasn't until she was in labour that we realised she was pregnant.

She was so small that one of the kittens basically got stuck. Despite taking her to the vet as soon as we realised she died. The kitten stuck also died. We tried our best with the 3 kittens she birthed before she died, but only 1 survived. She's a hard work kitty now because she was handfed and is a timid and clingy little cat.

Because it was the vet's error we didn't get hit by a bill, but the cost if it had just been choice to let her get pregnant we'd have faced a massive bill. Weekend vet trip. C-section. Drips. Then we'd have had the cost of the kittens as well. It's a crazy risk to take.

3ismylot · 07/07/2020 20:25

I'm not sure where you got the idea that registered KC breeders are more responsible or to be preferred - that's a view that is self-interestedly promoted by the KC. You can see where their approach to dog breeding and health has led at any dog show.

I completely agree with this @Goosefoot, too many people think that a registered breeder is automatically a good one and that unregistered breeders are bad, however unregistered breeders are more likely to see their animals as pets and the offspring are usual better socialised as a result. The over breeding of certain lines is ruining many breeds and they are experiencing more and more hereditary health issues as a result.

Alsohuman · 07/07/2020 20:33

If you were planning to breed her you would have already had eye screening and the appropriate dna tests for certain high risk conditions (3 in the case of JRTs) and you would be getting yourself KC registered, have a KC registered mentor. You should also be making sure the stud is fully health tested and KC registered as well, otherwise you are risking ill puppies

And how do you know I won’t have those tests done? I, too, am pretty cynical about the KC and won’t be going anywhere near it. If my bitch has a litter, there’s already a waiting list for the puppies based on their familiarity with the putative mother’s intelligence, character and beauty. No money will change hands. So you can cut out the mansplaining.

JKRisagryff · 07/07/2020 20:38

Vets don’t spay until five months here. It’s obviously not ideal but accidents happen and I’m not about to hang, draw and quarter anyone for it as long as they are rehomed responsibly.

Namechange2020onceagain · 07/07/2020 20:54

YANBU

I know accidents happen but there are many people who let their young cats get pregnant so they can sell the kittens.

I am currently on the waiting list with Celia Hammond for 2 kittens. I cannot wait. I could easily go and buy them from gumtree or pets4homes, but I don't want to add to the problem. Celia Hammond neuter all cats before adoption some as young as 12 weeks so it can be done.

I think it takes a special kind of human to work at rescue centres, they see some heartbreaking things on a regular basis. Bless them.

No one should ever buy a pet animal, always adopt, there are so many in need of homes.

OwlBeThere · 07/07/2020 21:00

@SimonJT my vet wouldn’t spay until she reached 3lb.

elvislives2012 · 07/07/2020 21:11

We had this! Had two female kittens. Turned out they were sexed wrongly and the (very black) cat was a boy! We took her to a vet asap and she was spayed (and therefore aborted). The kittens were rescued strays and we sure as hell
Didn't want to be responsible for more!

Allergictoironing · 07/07/2020 21:38

@Alsohuman

If you were planning to breed her you would have already had eye screening and the appropriate dna tests for certain high risk conditions (3 in the case of JRTs) and you would be getting yourself KC registered, have a KC registered mentor. You should also be making sure the stud is fully health tested and KC registered as well, otherwise you are risking ill puppies

And how do you know I won’t have those tests done? I, too, am pretty cynical about the KC and won’t be going anywhere near it. If my bitch has a litter, there’s already a waiting list for the puppies based on their familiarity with the putative mother’s intelligence, character and beauty. No money will change hands. So you can cut out the mansplaining.

I think the point here was that you seem pretty determined to breed from her based on the putative mother’s intelligence, character and beauty. No mention of the relevant tests; whether your bitch is a carrier can't be determined just by looking at here, there needs to be testing done.

I know of a couple of examples from different breeds, neither of them JRT but both popular breeds.

First one Miniature Poodles. These need a PRA test, to indicate whether they are a carrier. They can be classified A, B or C, and this can ONLY be found out by blood testing. If you have an "A" dog, all is fine. If you have a "B" dog, you should ONLY breed it to an "A" and then only if it's a very valuable blood line & get the puppies tested. If you have a "C" dog, don't even think about it. Soon after testing came out, one of the top stud dogs in the country was found to be "C", so guaranteed to pass the gene on to it's descendants, despite being a top winner & highly popular at stud prior to this. All it's offspring were tested as "B" or "C" depending on the bitch used.

Another case - German Shepherds. A friend paid a small fortune for a bitch by a top internationally recognised show dog, out of the first litter of another very well bred bitch. This poor puppy had so many congenital problems, many of which tend to be inherited, that she had to be put down. Turns out that neither parent had been checked for these, and though hip scored neither had been elbow scored (on of the puppy's biggest problems.

SimonJT isn't "mansplaining", all the comments have been common sense to anyone who knows much about dog breeding. Now I don't know much about JRTs, as my experience has been with the breeds above, but I DO know that if nothing else any person thinking of breeding from their bitch should be checking with the relevant breed association regarding testing, also suitable bloodlines. Just dismissing earlier questions on the subject saying you hate the KC and your bitch is beautiful, doesn't come across very well.

NotanotherboxofFrogs · 07/07/2020 21:47

I rang last week to the vet's about kittens refusing food (how dare I try and feed them cat food) and tried to book in a provisional date for neutering but they won't consider it until they are over 5 months so they are booked for mid September (subject to changes). They are heavy enough for the procedures being over the 3lb mark.

goose1964 · 07/07/2020 21:58

Years ago we had a female cat who would go around the neighbourhood trying to kidnap kittens. We soon learnt who had kittens . We have up and rescued a little black cat who couldn't meeow.

Alsohuman · 07/07/2020 21:59

No mention of the relevant tests

I did mention the tests. I didn’t say I hated the KC. HTH.

MartySouth · 07/07/2020 22:14

This really did happen to our cat though.

I really, really and honestly did not want her to get pregnant and I was really careful about keeping her indoors but a tomcat came into the house through the microchip catdoor. I had no idea the battery on the door had given up.

I had no idea she was pregnant until the vet called when she was in the surgery and about to be spayed. I still feel sad 15 years later that I said it would not be a good idea to go ahead with the pregnancy.

My point is that it can very easily happen even if it is really unwanted.

MartySouth · 07/07/2020 22:15

This really did happen to our cat though.

I really, really and honestly did not want her to get pregnant and I was really careful about keeping her indoors but a tomcat came into the house through the microchip catdoor. I had no idea the battery on the door had given up.

I had no idea she was pregnant until the vet called when she was in the surgery and about to be spayed. I still feel sad 15 years later that I said it would not be a good idea to go ahead with the pregnancy.

My point is that it can very easily happen even if it is really unwanted.

thecatneuterer · 07/07/2020 22:44

@Martysouth Even indoor only cats need to be neutered. If you didn't do enough research to know that (and frankly it doesn't take much) then that's your fault. You were irresponsible to not neuter her. It wasn't an 'accident' - it was carelessness/stupidity.

MartySouth · 07/07/2020 22:51

I didn't give enough detail.

My cat is not an indoor cat and I never intended her to be. I just kept her indoors during the period the vet told us to before she was spayed.

I kept to the vet's instructions to the letter. I did not want her to get pregnant. A cat visited and made her pregnant despite my sincere best efforts.

I'm just making the point that some owners sincerely try to protect their cats from pregnancy and it does not work, we are not all feckless liars!

TimeWastingButFun · 07/07/2020 22:52

thecatneuterer er no, it's the fault of the un neutered tom's owner - knowingly letting it out to reproduce when my friend's cat was safely indoors. She was still waiting for availability at the vet as she hadn't had the cat long!!

PotholeParadise · 07/07/2020 22:54

[quote thecatneuterer]@Martysouth Even indoor only cats need to be neutered. If you didn't do enough research to know that (and frankly it doesn't take much) then that's your fault. You were irresponsible to not neuter her. It wasn't an 'accident' - it was carelessness/stupidity.[/quote]
To be fair, it was discovered during neutering. Marty did plan to neuter her indoor cat, and in fact took her in early enough during the unknown pregnancy that that it was discovered during prep for spaying.

Obviously it would have been better if she'd got her spayed before that first season, but I wouldn't lump her in with the people who plan at the outset never to spay their cat because it'll be 'a housecat'.

I 100% agree that the latter are absolute fools because you cannot commit to never ever let a desperately randy cat escape over her lifetime.

Goosefoot · 07/07/2020 22:55

SimonJT isn't "mansplaining", all the comments have been common sense to anyone who knows much about dog breeding. Now I don't know much about JRTs, as my experience has been with the breeds above, but I DO know that if nothing else any person thinking of breeding from their bitch should be checking with the relevant breed association regarding testing, also suitable bloodlines. Just dismissing earlier questions on the subject saying you hate the KC and your bitch is beautiful, doesn't come across very well.

Yeah, he is.

The KC is responsible for more dodgy breeding and deformed dog than what people think of as backyard breeders.

Did you ever wonder why dogs need all those tests, or why so many Jack Russel, Border Collie, or Duck Toller people resisted joining? The toot their own horn as the only group who gets to decide what is necessary for healthy dog breeding, but that's because they depend on people joining and registering for their funding.

Tinkerbell456 · 07/07/2020 22:56

I’m disappointed. I read the title of this thread and I thought it was a mother in law one.

Dullardmullard · 07/07/2020 22:59

@Alsohuman

If you were planning to breed her you would have already had eye screening and the appropriate dna tests for certain high risk conditions (3 in the case of JRTs) and you would be getting yourself KC registered, have a KC registered mentor. You should also be making sure the stud is fully health tested and KC registered as well, otherwise you are risking ill puppies

And how do you know I won’t have those tests done? I, too, am pretty cynical about the KC and won’t be going anywhere near it. If my bitch has a litter, there’s already a waiting list for the puppies based on their familiarity with the putative mother’s intelligence, character and beauty. No money will change hands. So you can cut out the mansplaining.

Hope you know the studs parents as much as the bitches then. As that’ll be a disaster.

Cats can have their kittens aborted right up to viability if you know a vet that will
Miss mate works in both but only up to a certain date. Dogs 42 days if over they deliver but the vet takes the full womb

I’ve used missmate as it was my responsibility.

AhNowTed · 07/07/2020 23:07

YANBU

We were green cat owners many moons ago. The poor cat was less than a year old herself. She had a lovely litter which we successfully homed, but oh my we learned our lesson.

It's not fair and we should have been a lot more responsible. We have a neutered Tom now.

Dullardmullard · 07/07/2020 23:07

@3ismylot

I'm not sure where you got the idea that registered KC breeders are more responsible or to be preferred - that's a view that is self-interestedly promoted by the KC. You can see where their approach to dog breeding and health has led at any dog show.

I completely agree with this @Goosefoot, too many people think that a registered breeder is automatically a good one and that unregistered breeders are bad, however unregistered breeders are more likely to see their animals as pets and the offspring are usual better socialised as a result. The over breeding of certain lines is ruining many breeds and they are experiencing more and more hereditary health issues as a result.

No they are not they see them as money and quick money at that The vets then have to usually pick up the pieces of sick or ill pups because they’ve used the next doors mongrel with no thought to the bitch
Nowifi · 07/07/2020 23:10

I had my kitten neutered last week and felt really guilty about doing it, but equally she just seems too tiny to go out and get pregnant. Now if she could just stop waking me up at 5am Shock

PotholeParadise · 07/07/2020 23:15

@Nowifi

I had my kitten neutered last week and felt really guilty about doing it, but equally she just seems too tiny to go out and get pregnant. Now if she could just stop waking me up at 5am Shock
Agreed on both counts. Despite having had pet rats successfully come through general anaesthetic, I always feel very anxious about small kittens six times their size getting neutered.

However, as you said, pregnancy is so much more of a risk to a tiny adolescent cat than a routine neutering procedure.

I

Ponoka7 · 07/07/2020 23:18

"Cats can have their kittens aborted right up to viability if you know a vet that will"

That's no different than drowning them straight after birth. Except it's less risky for the Queen.

I wouldn't judge anyone whose cat has just given birth. I've had to leave a male cat unneutered, because of lock down.