To think Margaret Atwood is amazing

[Bibijayne]

Just that really.

Maybe she never really believed there was any real world inspiration for the way people were segregated in the Handmaids Tale - it was all just pure imagination and whimsy, with no factual basis in any form of sex-based oppression. Just pure coincidence that women’s reproductive labour was being explored I expect.

MA has said repeatedly that there was nothing she wrote in HT that wasn't already happening in real life somewhere in the world. I would like her to explain how all these abused/oppressed women could have stopped this using her trans-fish theory.

Could a wealthy, white male (what with having all the power to decide who is what) theoretically identify as a woman/have surgery and then either be a wife or an Aunt/Martha?

Owen Jones ("you are our Queen, Attwood") has Aunt Lydia written all over him.

There is no evidence that her opinion has changed, so I wouldn't ascribe it to old age.

I'm amazed by her but probably not for the same reason you are. The Handmaid's Tale was one of my favourite books though and I think has done more for feminism than she can undo with a few tweets.

I'm happy she is able to have an opinion though and not get loads of death threats or people asking her to suck their lady dick. I'm also happy her people haven't called her tweet "a middle aged moment".

I disagree with her though entirely. Clownfish or not.

Great author, rubbish scientist!
I'm really disappointed, I thought she understood how damaging misogyny is and would be less easily swayed be the baying masses.

Oh I take i back. posters are saying she must have dementia.

Frankly most 30 year olds I know have bought hook line and sinker into trans nonsense and I seriously doubt they've all got dementia. They were also well aware that women had wombs and were often abused for that fact prior to 5 years ago as well.

My guess would be that Atwood is unaware of Danielle Muscato or that FGM is cis sexist etc

She is in Canada and there is a lot of propaganda regarding gender there and a lot of pressure to wax women's balls to conform to beliefs around gender identity.

It Atwood had expressed a controversial opinion in respect of anything other than trans rights there is no way you would be arguing that she must have lost her mind. That's the bloody point!

Have aread back over the posts you are smugly laughing at! You aren't the only perosn to be talking about the difference in perception and her own thinking. You are just the only poster who is using that discordance to belittle other posters. Why do you feel the need to do that?

How many, including me, have pointed out it is the cognitive dissonance that jars! We read Atwood and her writings filled a space in our own thoughts, our own feminism. For years we have managed to ignore, or even not know about, her liberal feminism as her writings strike a different cord to many different women.

Her tweet has brought that into bright lught. We can discuss it, some of us are. If you don't like it the least you can do is ADD to the discussion rather than detract from the posters!

In short, stop acting like her least likeable female protagonists!

I think it's just a massive cop out. Her books are great, her personal views just seem to be a cop out to me.

JK Rowling bravely put her head above the parapet whereas MA starts some bullshit logic just to cop out.....in my opinion.

I've never read any books by Margaret Atwood. I do know that human biology is not on a sliding scale. There are only two sexes. Female and Male. I also know that human beings cannot change sex. It's not possible, ever.

Could a wealthy, white male (what with having all the power to decide who is what) theoretically identify as a woman/have surgery and then either be a wife or an Aunt/Martha?

Nothing to do with Atwood or the world she created, but I think the key word there is 'wealthy'. In theoretical and real oppressive societies it's very difficult to escape if you don't have access to money, but the rules for people with power are often very relaxed.

It Atwood had expressed a controversial opinion in respect of anything other than trans rights there is no way you would be arguing that she must have lost her mind.

Bullshit. If someone had made a career writing books about astronomy and they suddenly declared the earth was flat I’d also be saying the same.

She’s not just supporting trans rights, she’s denying that males and females exist and urging people to look at slug sex, fish and all sorts to defend her point.

This has not been a rational, calm or even heartfelt defense of her position, it’s disjointed, reality denying and, at points, rambling.

I love The Handmaid's Tale. It's one of the books that stayed with me for weeks after I read it, and really was an eye opener that made me understand how women are oppressed even more.

It's a pity the person who first made me really see the injustices of how women are treated think it can be identified out of but I still think it's an important (to me anyhow!) text. Won't be going for any book burning sessions just yet.

@CluelessBaker

Mumsnet is all for women until one of them expresses an opinion which doesn’t fall into the accepted doctrine on trans rights. Then, her opinions are worthless and she clearly requires medical intervention for her ‘personality change’. Ahh, sweet and unsubtle misogyny.

Nothing to do with the ‘accepted doctrine’ on trans rights: biological sex is not a sliding scale. Everyone knows what a woman is, since every person on the planet was gestated by one. Everyone knows that there are two gametes and that one of each is required to create a new human. Anyone attempting to deny this or obfuscate the facts is lying.

I love MA's books, especially Alias Grace! I don't agree with her (ill-informed to me) comments but I will continue to read and enjoy her work. What I won't do is tweet that she has ruined my life by having a differing opinion, claim she is LITERALLY killing women or threaten any physical/sexual violence...

It is hilarious how people, who previously had not clue, have found out how slugs have sex, and suddenly it is proof of gender ideology

The slugs are laughing all the way round the vegetable garden.

Hmmm, I wonder if Twitter will now be full of feminists threatening to burn her books......

Atwood's views on 'Me Too' were quite controversial a couple of years ago. I don't know enough about he case she was talking about to comment, but I think she just says what she feels.

www.theguardian.com/books/2018/jan/15/margaret-atwood-feminist-backlash-metoo

I think that as with any writer, sometimes she is well informed, sometimes she isn't and sometimes people deliberately misunderstand her point of view.

I wonder how it was decided which roles were enforced on which people...could it possibly have been based on their biological sex? Why couldn't Offred have just identified out of her oppressive role?

One wonders why every single biological woman in Gilead didn't just ID as male.

I think MA's work is amazing.
I think JKR's work is amazing.
I'm capable of enjoying creativity without needing the artist to believe what I believe. For example I think Twitter is a cesspit for fuckwits and narcissists to wrestle, but they're both on there. Nowt as queer as folk.

Mumsnet is all for women until one of them expresses an opinion which doesn’t fall into the accepted doctrine on trans rights. Then, her opinions are worthless and she clearly requires medical intervention for her ‘personality change’. Ahh, sweet and unsubtle misogyny.

Why would people on a site called 'mumsnet' be particularly concerned about protecting sex based rights. It's a mystery.

@CuriousaboutSamphire

I haven’t smugly laughed at anyone. Are you confusing me with a different poster?

I have absolutely no issue with people discussing Atwood’s opinions, or disagreeing with them, or sharing their interpretations of her writing.

What I strenuously object to is posters claiming that her expression of this opinion is a sign of dementia / personality change / the need for medical intervention. This is base misogyny, and I am perfectly entitled to challenge any poster who falls into the sexist and ageist trope of invalidating the opinions of older women with whom they disagree on the basis that they must have lost their minds.

In short, stop acting like her least likeable female protagonists!

Margaret Atwood’s least likeable female protagonists participated in or facilitated murder, rape and pedophilia, so let’s try and keep things in perspective, eh?

*Bullshit. If someone had made a career writing books about astronomy and they suddenly declared the earth was flat I’d also be saying the same.

She’s not just supporting trans rights, she’s denying that males and females exist and urging people to look at slug sex, fish and all sorts to defend her point. *

This.

I'll defend her right to express herself how she wishes but I'm not obligated to agree with her or to fail to raise an eyebrow about the subject of her opinions and cognitive dissonance in the context of her literary work.

[quote Bibijayne]@Jammydodger1981 she's hardly had a personality change. You just disagree with her on this specific matter. No need to be rude.

Likewise JKR has always been consistent. You can appreciate books and writing without agreeing with everything an author says.

I think putting your head above the parapet in anyway as a woman on social media is pretty impressive.[/quote]
She's not putting her head above the parapet, she's singing from the TRA hymnsheet! It's the opposite of impressive.

Why would people on a site called 'mumsnet' be particularly concerned about protecting sex based rights.

Could you please explain to me how suggesting that a woman might have dementia because she expresses an opinion one doesn’t agree with is protecting sex-based rights?

She's never much been a friend to feminism tbh. I think living in Canada and spending all your time with the literati must mean that the Kool Aid seeps into the blood a little!

When I saw she'd tweeted an article I thought, 'OK, I'm going to read this and see if I can try to see this from the other point of view' so I did, and nope, if anything it made me even more convinced of the genderwoowoo. It wasn't even a scientific journal, just a blog post without a named author I think?

I still love her writing and her books though. You see, I'm comfortable with being able to disagree with someone yet not feel the need to hate and cancel them...