To think Margaret Atwood is amazing

[Bibijayne]

Just that really.

I'm feeling smug because I have argued for years that The Handmaid's Tale isn't a feminist novel and, tbh, at our feminist book group the room was fairly split between those who thought it feminist and those who didn't.
A ground-breaking dystopian novel, yes. Feminist? Nope.
I look forward to OP's opinions on other books and female writers ... or perhaps they're just here to be goady. Surely not?

( by 'is it worth it' I mean I'd have to invest a few months to read a very short book as I have NOOOO TIMMMME!)

As I posted on another thread...

I remember when the novel was released. If you can, go back to some of the reviews and her discussions of it at the time. An early scene in the book (I loathed it so gave it away and can't check up on this) is Offred's mother with other radical feminists burning books (pornography). The point Attwood was making (and it is an interesting one) is that feminists created Gilead with their allegiance to the 'new right', the evangelical Christian movement and Reagan. She openly opposed radical feminism and always has been a lib. fem.

bishopsgiggles if you like Atwood's writing then yes it's definitely 'worth it'. It also gets referenced so much in popular culture that it's handy to have a first hand understanding.

Do you see no misogyny Maybe, but I'd also see the oft inevitable issue of age related deterioration, mental and physical, it comes to us all!

Given the quote was about a mooted relative I would expect that the person would be well acquainted with said old woman's 'normal'!! That would seem a reasonable query in Atwood's case as her Twiter statement appears to be in direct contrast to her life's writings. We, the reader, has to consider theat either she has experienced a life changing event or her writings were not as heart felt as we may have imagined

Sometimes a thing is what it purports to be... other times it simply is not!

We can question the whys and wherefores...

She writes really well and I like her books.

She isn't great at science.

I'd love to know more about her views, but I'm not going learn much from twitter.

@AnneOfQueenSables

I'm feeling smug because I have argued for years that The Handmaid's Tale isn't a feminist novel and, tbh, at our feminist book group the room was fairly split between those who thought it feminist and those who didn't. A ground-breaking dystopian novel, yes. Feminist? Nope. I look forward to OP's opinions on other books and female writers ... or perhaps they're just here to be goady. Surely not?

I believe Atwood doesn't like her work being viewed as "feminist" because she thinks it's a label slapped on to anything by a female author... might be wrong, though.

@YetAnotherSpartacus

As I posted on another thread...

I remember when the novel was released. If you can, go back to some of the reviews and her discussions of it at the time. An early scene in the book (I loathed it so gave it away and can't check up on this) is Offred's mother with other radical feminists burning books (pornography). The point Attwood was making (and it is an interesting one) is that feminists created Gilead with their allegiance to the 'new right', the evangelical Christian movement and Reagan. She openly opposed radical feminism and always has been a lib. fem.

That is a very good point

I’ve never seen the handmaids take as a feminist thing, but a very misogynistic horror story

@CuriousaboutSamphire please don’t take your failure to understand her writing as evidence that she is losing her mind.

@Bibijayne

I'm puzzled by the amount of posters who don't understand the different categories of women in the Handmaid's Tale and that the majority of women were not Handmaids. Only proven fertile women who had divorced/ behaved in other ways considered immoral by the state.

But how did they tell who was a man and who was a woman?

Or should that be how did they decide who was male and who was female?

I'm puzzled by the amount of posters who don't understand the different categories of women in the Handmaid's Tale

Not one of the Martha’s, wives, econowives or handmaids had a penis.
I think we understand that pretty well.

I wonder how they knew whose bank accounts to freeze...... seeing as they didn’t seem to ask anyone their preferred pronouns before freezing them.
What a mystery for the ages......

Just throwing an idea out...

Could a wealthy, white male (what with having all the power to decide who is what) theoretically identify as a woman/have surgery and then either be a wife or an Aunt/Martha?

It would be an interesting avenue to pursue. More secrets, demands for a HM to produce a child, opportunities for abuse, perpetuating gender roles - they could be an ally, they could be an oppressor.

Maybe a commander could want to protect their non conforming daughter through publicly having 'a son'?

After all, being female is shit - loving your child might be the motivation for bringing them up and obtaining blockers/testosterone/surgery so that they aren't subjected to the restrictions placed upon them by Gilead society?

I wonder how they knew whose bank accounts to freeze...... seeing as they didn’t seem to ask anyone their preferred pronouns before freezing them.

How terribly bigoted and transphobic of them!

And yet the plight of the transman, a category of female, is totally ignored by her writing.

Missing the point, but a screenshot of the Tweet would be quite helpful to people not on Twitter.

I've enjoyed the TV show of the Handmaid's Tale, but never read the book - is it worth it? To be honest, I wasn't as taken with it as I was with others - so much so I didn't bother with the telly series. The book was interesting, but maybe a little bit too straight line thinking for me! There is nothing sudden, some of the things the series seem to have made clear just aren't in the book at al - like how the Sons of Jacob started! But it is worth reading as it is often used as shorthand for many social mores.

As YAS said, her books aren't feminist as many understand feminism these days. There is always a woman or three set upon keeping women down, mothers, sisters, etc. Some women actively engage with the oppression of women. She is / was a liberationist.

It is that perspective I need to have a rethink about. Just to reframe some of how I think about it, and her Tweets. In that light her TWAW isn't all that surprising. Disappointing, but not surprising!

@CluelessBaker

Not sure I have ever seen any poster suggesting a woman needs medical intervention for her thoughts..

There is a post on literally the first post of this thread saying ‘If an elderly relative of mine had such a sudden personality change like that I’d be taking them to the doctors tbh.’.

Do you see no misogyny (not to mention ageism) in the suggestion that an ‘elderly’ woman must be suffering from some kind of medical condition for her to have expressed an opinion that’s supportive of trans rights?

It's not for supporting trans women - it's for having a sudden change of personality. Which is often a sign of illness such as dementia and so should be treated to slow deterioration.

Please don't twist posters' words.

I like her writing but think she's talking out of her bum about sex being on a sliding scale.

I shan't be burning her books. I'll carry on reading them.

Sod off @CluelessBaker You can reframe anything I tyoe as you like. But I don't have to acept your interpretation. And that one sentence had sod all to do with what I actually typed. You distilled it too far, missed a lot! And no, please don't quote me a word or two to prove you know what I am thinking better than I do! That is tiresome!

How very depressing.

I'm glad she went into writing and not biology teaching.

As the oppression of women has been based on our biology for thousands of years, I, for one, am glad that biology is now irrelevant. I’m looking forward to my 17.3% pay rise.

Do you see no misogyny (not to mention ageism) in the suggestion that an ‘elderly’ woman must be suffering from some kind of medical condition for her to have expressed an opinion that’s supportive of trans rights

Dementia is an illness that affects the elderly, both male and female, so I don't see any ageism or misogyny there.

Is the only way we can support trans rights to deny biology, reality and stop defending women's rights?

apart from a few people with genuine intersex conditions (0.018%) biologically the rest of us are male /man or female/women.

People with disorders of sexual development (colloquially known as ‘intersex’) are not some ‘other’ sex nor are the hermaphrodites, they are male or female.

It's not for supporting trans women - it's for having a sudden change of personality. Which is often a sign of illness such as dementia and so should be treated to slow deterioration.

All of this ‘sudden change of personality’ bullshit is laughable. Your interpretation of the Handmaid’s Tale (which will have been informed by your own biases and pre-existing opinions) doesn’t coincide with the author’s expressed views and suddenly you think you can diagnose a personality disorder?

This is pure misogyny - dismissing a woman’s opinion because it doesn’t agree with yours by assuming she must not be mentally sound. It’s a very old trick and it’s surprising to me that some on this thread are brazen enough to try it. It Atwood had expressed a controversial opinion in respect of anything other than trans rights there is no way you would be arguing that she must have lost her mind.