Think IABVVVVU, but not sure why i didn't stop him??? i din't want him to do this?? (potential TRIGGER warning)

[pizzawaffle]

I am a long time lurker, but have not posted yet. I believe IABVVVU and overthinking this but please be gentle. I do have diagnosed CPTSD, BPD, OCD and eating disorder, and grew up in a household full of domestic abuse and other kinds of abuse. Also was sexually assaulted in childhood more than once by severela different people. I mention this because it may be relevant?

This was triggered by a thread I read a few minutes ago but it reminded me of something that happened some years back that although I don't believe has damaged me per se, has been playing on my mind.

This happened over 20 years ago, as a university student. I had been having some mental health issues and was admitted to hospital after an overdose. After being released for a few weeks I was still very vulnerable and not good with boundaries.

I went shopping one evening at my late night supermarket, got a taxi back. The taxi driver kept chatting me up and I couldn't wait for the ride to be over. I didn't want any relationship with anyone- and am shy. When we got to my flat I needed help with the shopping being taken in due to having ME/CFS and mobility issues from that. Then he started saying he wanted to go to bed with me. I said "No, am tired" but he kept on at me and my sense fo boundaries has never been strong so I eventually let him do it hoping it would be over as quick as possible... I did let him up until the point where he wanted to get inside me and I said "no, don't want to get pregnant, I don;t want this" so he kept perstering me to let him carry on but he wouldn't put it inside....I hated every minute of it- I was tired and I kept hoping he would take the hint, but I froze....He suddenly sat up and said "you're shaking! why are you shaking?" I just wanted it over...

He left when he had finished.Even though he hadn't been inside me he had been near enough and I, having OCD, was obsessed with idea I could be pregnant. I got the morning after pill and was feeling stupid because it was my fault but also angry- angry that I had elt him when I didnt want to, angry I was in this position- me, someone who doesn't trsut men, who doesn't even like men that much (not kidding- I really don't care about the opposite sex).

I know this is daft but I still feel angry about what happened. I mean, am not a victim- I wasn;t raped (not by him anyway) and am a bit worried as to why I am seeing myself as a victim in this scenario when nothing untoward happened other than a bit of bad sex

I wonder whether the issue is my childhood has caused me to see myself as a victim during sexual encounters and because of the early childhood trauma, am overreacting to what happened? I just feel utterly angry that this man kept wearing me down, but then again, my "No" was very weak and why didn't I fight back?

What upsets me, is that as a n older child, a predator did something to me (not the first time somethign like that happened) and I just froze. I did not say "no" or fight him off, which I would do now?Which makes me wonder why was I unable to just stop these things happening?

Please don't flame me I was recentlya dmitted to hospital for self injury wound getting infected and am still feeling very wobbly.

Have you discussed the sexual abuse that you suffered as a child with a counsellor? I assume to have the diagnoses you have you will have spoken to several mental health professionals at least (I've all the same diagnoses myself- even down to the ME)

If so, did they explain to you that freezing is actually part of the fight or flight response people talk about? There are many many people who freeze, often with the belief that in freezing and allowing the perpetrator to get what they want done with, and as little reaction as possible will lead to the situation being over as quickly as possible, with less damage done to oneself?

This was explained to me when going through counselling for my own abuse and I also froze. I was scared of making the situation worse so I was quiet and didnt move.

I also just want to say, the incident with the taxi driver doesnt read as if it was a sexual encounter. It sounds like it was sexual assault. You didnt want that man doing what he did to you. You said so. He continued. Regardless of whether his penis was in you or not.

This was NOT consensual. You relented because you wanted him gone, that's not consent. You kept saying no. Wearing you down, pushing you, not hearing you say no...all markers that remove any consent you may have given. Except I don't think you did consent.

I can't figure out if he penetrated you or not. If he did, it was rape, if he didn't it was sexual assault.

Freezing is a valid and known response to sexual assault. You DID say no.

So sorry pizza.

Some men are very, VERY good detectors of women who have low self-esteem and poor boundaries and can be badgered into saying "yes" to things they clearly don't actually want. A lot of men use a woman's "yes" as blanket permission even when they have every reason to know that the woman's ability to make good decisions is compromised.

It wasn't your fault. You didn't consent, and you were very vulnerable.

I am very sorry, and hope you can be gentle with yourself - you deserve compassion, and you deserve to heal from all the shitty things that happened to you.

None of the abuse that happened to you was your fault.

You were sexually assaulted. It wasn't "bad sex". What he did was coercion, which under UK law is no different than physical force as far as sexual offences go. I.e. you did not consent.

@Rumbletumbleinmytummy

Have you discussed the sexual abuse that you suffered as a child with a counsellor? I assume to have the diagnoses you have you will have spoken to several mental health professionals at least (I've all the same diagnoses myself- even down to the ME)

If so, did they explain to you that freezing is actually part of the fight or flight response people talk about? There are many many people who freeze, often with the belief that in freezing and allowing the perpetrator to get what they want done with, and as little reaction as possible will lead to the situation being over as quickly as possible, with less damage done to oneself?

This was explained to me when going through counselling for my own abuse and I also froze. I was scared of making the situation worse so I was quiet and didnt move.

I also just want to say, the incident with the taxi driver doesnt read as if it was a sexual encounter. It sounds like it was sexual assault. You didnt want that man doing what he did to you. You said so. He continued. Regardless of whether his penis was in you or not.

Thanks for the flowers and kind message. I am seeing a trauma therapist and have had DBT which I still use. I did tell them about the SA and their response was to tell me teh freezing as a child was understandable and a typical response. So am trying to be a bit less hard on myself about that- did also mention the taxi driver thing and was told "welll it seems like he was taking advantage of someone vulnerable." They don't think am taking on the victim and that my feelings are legitimate which is good, but a part of my brain keeps trying to tell me I am overreacting.

My father was very good at gaslighting and if ever I had nay concerns about anything would usually tell me that I am someone who takes on a victim role and that I just feel sorry for myself an dblow things out of proportion. My therapist says my father is toxic and to throw out anything he says. Which I ben trying to do but my mind cannot seem to let go off this concept I have of myself as someone who makes a fuss and is oversensitive to things.

I really want to change the image I have of myself as someone who whines and feels bad over things that have happened to me but I am not sure how to get rid of that toxic voice of my father's.

@rosiejaune

You were sexually assaulted. It wasn't "bad sex". What he did was coercion, which under UK law is no different than physical force as far as sexual offences go. I.e. you did not consent.

I worry that I consented to some of it even though I din't want to by not being firm enough or clear enough with my nos. I wanted to scream at him to get the fuck out and that I am sick of men not leaving me alone but I just couldn't.

What a creepy encounter! I think you were trapped into that situation and I don't blame you for feeling victimized. Maybe it's not rape but it's not exactly 100 percent consensual, either.

Pizza, I would say that your therapist is 100% right in telling you that your feelings about these situations being bad are right. Of course you are going to feel emotions related to these events, they are some of the most traumatic things that a person can go through. Sexual abuse can alter the way you view so many things after the event. Sometimes trauma can make us hypersensitive to certain things, BUT every single person on this earth has a right to have their feelings. I imagine throughout your childhood you probably felt like you had to repress a lot of the feelings you had to satisfy your father.

There is nothing at all in your posts that had made me think victim mentality, your posts have made me think that over time you've been worn down, probably made to feel like your feelings should fit in somewhere behind other peoples, and those who push their way to the front have never shown you the same courtesy which makes you feel like even less. With all of your health conditions, you probably dont get a day of peace without a lot of bad feelings and thoughts, and physical pain.
I think you're amazing for continuing on. I also think its amazing you went to university.

You are a star, and you spend every day dragging around a lot of baggage many others have never had to. One day I hope you see yourself for the absolute warrior you are.

No, that was a very bad situation, and he was inappropriate. It also sounds like you were less assertive than you would like to have been, and maybe feel like you let yourself down.

It's possible and ok for both of those things to be true.

I think if you're questioning whether you have a 'victim mentality' then it's probably a pretty safe bet that you don't because (ime at least) people with this tendency are so absorbed in their own mindset/belief they don't think to question it. That may be a simplistic way of looking at it but you sound far too self aware to automatically cast yourself as a victim.

But what happened was not consensual, coerced consent is not consent and I believe he realised you were vulnerable, that's clearly sexual assault/rape depending on how far it went. I understand why the lines are blurred in your mind though, I'm a survivor too and it does mess with your thinking. I hope the replies here are giving you the confirmation you feel you need and I'm sorry you've been through so much at the hands of others

What a bastard. An absolute predatory bastard. I’m so sorry you were assaulted like that, OP. That’s horrific.

You sound so sad and so worn down, but in fact, as a PP said above, you’re an absolute warrior. A powerhouse. Despite having your feelings invalidated by bullies and assailants your whole life, you’re on your feet and fighting for the happiness you deserve, and fuck the lot of them.

Listen to your gut. It’s helped you survive this far, and it’ll get you to where you need to be.

Being assaulted wasn’t your fault. You didn’t cause it, and it wasn’t your responsibility to stop it. Your only job was to survive it, and you did.

Good luck with the therapy. Sounds like you’re well on your way.

and a massive hug.

I see many people playing the victim in todays society but i DONT think youre one of them. I actually think you've taken a very mature and balanced approach and the things you're feeling are perfectly normal and usually expected when you've faced the difficulties you have.

You understand that while he mightn't have acted illegally that he did, at minimum, act inappropriately and/or immorally. You are also conscious of the fact you feel that you let yourself down by not being as assertive as you'd of liked and you've taken steps to working through the complex reasons why that might have been the case. This will likely take time, but you seem strong and i bet you're more capable and stronger than you think so im sure you'll come out the other side having benefitted from it.

Chin up & good luck x

Thank you for your kind responses- so many lovely replies on here. Did not expect such kind responses. It has helped reading the perspectives of others on here. Makes me feel less alone in my own head. It is invaluable.

Just because you didn't shout, doesn't mean you consented.

You are in NO WAY over-reacting. What he did was dispicable and he knew it - he knew you didn't consent, I promise you, no matter how firm you were or weren't.

Your therapist sounds like a good one. Please keep repeating in your head what they've said to you, because it's 100% true.

OP, you are not being unreasonable. Freezing or conceding to predators is an incredibly common response to people coercing you to have sex. It’s a form of self-preservation, where your brain thinks the safest thing to get you out of the situation is to accept it and get it over with quickly.

It doesn’t mean this was consensual sex. It doesn’t mean what the taxi driver did was ok. This absolutely was a case of rape, or at the bare minimum sexual assault, and it didn’t happen because of anything you did ‘wrong’. You aren’t to blame for this. The blame lies entirely with the taxi driver who took advantage of you when you were vulnerable and coerced you into doing something you didn’t want to do.

It’s not your responsibility to ‘prove’ that you mean it when you say no to sex. One single no - in fact, anything less than a confident and enthusiastic yes - should be more than sufficient to put an end to it. The fact that this taxi driver didn’t stop makes him an abuser. It does not make you someone who didn’t do enough to prove you were serious.

I am so sorry this happened to you. I’m proud of you for speaking to a therapist, and I hope this brings healing and peace for you

@differentnameforthis

Just because you didn't shout, doesn't mean you consented.

I took her account, if im right, that she was disappointed in herself that she did consent when really it was something she didnt want to do and, in hindsight, would have wished she'd have had more confidence to control the situation to her advantage.

Just because by the definition of the word she consented, doesn't mean he acted in an appropriate manner as he likely took advantage of the fact she was unsure and pressured her to continue. This isn't illegal, so is a situation we need to know how to control.

This is clearly partly, if not primarily, why she decided to seek help. There will always be men who are looking to take advantage of what they see as a sexual situation, and because this often doesn't mean acting illegally OP were she faced with a similar scenario recognises that with a bit of help she's now getting she'd have the power to take control were she ever to face a similar scenario.

Many women arent yet mature enough to understand let alone take these things head on.

There’s fight and flight, which most people are aware of, but lots of people don’t know about freeze, the body’s third instinctive option when confronted with danger. You froze - not consciously, it just happened. Because your body wanted to protect you. Fighting back could have led to greater harm.
It’s absolutely not your fault and this should never have happened to you. I’m ever so sorry. Glad you’re going to therapy - that’s really important, I hope you find it useful for you.

I've had sex many times that I didn't want to but I didn't know how to refuse. Have also experienced rape which I only realised years later was actually rape.
I'm still working on boundaries now.
I hope you can find a safe place to talk about this and get some support to deal with your past and to help you manage your life going forward.

@DivineTruth OP clearly states in her first post that she said no several times first and only ‘gave in’ because she wanted it over with. No several times followed by one begrudging ‘yes’ and someone shaking in bed with you is not consent. It just isn’t.

I don't think the situation was quite like that, DivineTruth.

She clearly indicated that she didn't want sex - she said, 'No, I am tired', but he continued to pester her. This is coercion. She blames herself for not being more forceful in her 'No'. But this man was not going to take any kind of no for an answer.

The man the OP encountered turned a completely non-sexual situation into one where he raped someone who was alone, late at night, someone smaller and physically weaker than him.

There will always be men who are looking to take advantage of what they see as a sexual situation
Correction:
There will always be men who are looking to take advantage.
They seek to assert their power over someone they perceive to be weaker and unable to escape.

I would bet the farm that this man was a serial rapist with the perfect job to give him the opportunities he sought.

No means no. That's your verbal no.
Your body shaking. That's your physical no.

Your taxi driver was a predator.

You are a victim OP. You do not have a victim mentality.

If you haven't had any support then please have some therapy/counselling. You have been through so much

Yeah, I really don’t like the term ‘take advantage’ when it comes to rape and sexual assault. Just call these things what they are. No need to minimise.

Don't know what I'm more angry about- that taxi driver, or the posters who have voted that yabu..This man was at least a sexually deviant sociopathic predator and probably has raped since. if you could identify him I bet you could bring a historic charge and he would have more on his sheet. Be kind to yourself