What do you think of this idea of a wealth tax?

[LuluJakey1]

This is from The Guardian this afternoon. It is the third article I have seen in the Press two days promoting this idea.

www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/06/arts-wealth-tax-rishi-sunak-nhs-public-services?CMP=Share_iOSApp_Other

Personally, I think it is bonkers. She seems to be suggesting that ALL wealth in this country - houses, savings, pensions, shares/paintings etc should be subjected to a one off tax of 10% to get us out of the financial mess.

DH and I would have to find about £80,000 cash! We'd have to sell the house?

Yes- Yes it is a good idea and you are BU to criticise it.
No- It is an awful idea and you are right to criticise it.

Re: Making the old pay, sounds good in many peoples mind. However:

DM (92) just sold a second house she had (which she bought to subsidise her old age). She paid £70,000K in CGT. Lucky treasury. She is paying for her care home at £900 a week, thereby helping to subsidise others in her home who do not pay (taxpayers pay). So, actually, she is paying twice.... you can't penalise the "old" for their wealth when they need that to SAVE the taxpayer care costs. You can't have it both ways.

@TazSyd if your house deposit is less than £1mn, I wouldn't be that concerned myself. If you've got the full amount ready to buy a house for cash, then that might be more concerning.

Of course you can write to your MP anyway - that's what they're supposed to do. But I reiterate that I really don't think one guardian columnist's views on what should happen is anything we need to worry about too much.

Plus if its calculated on the equity of your house, you would remortage for 90% and hide the money. Wait a year, sell the collection of Rolexes, or porches, and pay it back off again.

@Tazsyd if i think this would happen and my deposit gets taken then i will get there first and go on a long holiday with it insteAd , i pay my taxes already and happily pay a small increase but if I get punished for saving i would use the money before giving any over thats for sure.

Are we including cars? Wine? Watches? Jewellery?

What about TVs? Gaming systems? Virtual assets such as positions in games, or equipment in games that can be exchanged for real money so therefore have actual ‘real world’ value?

What about business ‘goodwill’? Are we going to ask GPs and dentists for fork out 10% of the value of their share of GP and dental practices?

What about farmers? What do you think is going to happen to food prices if farmers have yo pay out 10% the value of their farm?

As usual the lefties can be relied upon to create bonkers ideas for equality - everyone being equally poor and equally miserable. Let’s face it they can’t produce much else.

Should we all write to our local MPs?
Why? Do you think the Government is going to listen to Polly fucking Toynbee.

@Raella50

Yes I’m aware it’s been bought with taxed income but we’re faced with raising the taxation rates well above the rate that money was taxed at because we’re not on normal times! The burden should be shared by all. So many wealthy pensioners in expensive homes looking to raise taxes on salaries cash-strapped families with big mortgages. Sick of it.

How many pensioners is that exactly? What is a big or expensive house?

Even a 10% tax on equity would be bonkers. We probably have £40k equity in our house, we couldn't find £4k from anywhere. There's no way the building society is going to let us borrow it!

If they did that, there would be thousands of families in court for non-payment.

And then eventually, sleeping on the council office steps because they had their houses confiscated.
Banks would suffer when people couldn’t pay mortgages or loans, crime would explode because people would be desperate.

Much more likely 2p on all rates of income tax.

@BlingLoving

I live in the north, so no I don’t have a 1 mil deposit .

DP and I were due to buy a house last year with the proceeds of our individual flat sales (we owned one each that we’d bought before we met) plus a mortgage. The house purchase fell through but we decided to sell the flats and move into rented as having to sell 2 flats at the same time as buying 1 house made the chain too complicated. Since then DP has been made redundant so we can’t buy until he finds a new job.

If they tax savings then hopefully it will be above a certain amount, or any savings earmarked for a property purchase will be excluded.

A wealth tax does not need to be 10%. That's a silly idea, intended to frighten the readers. There is a vast amount of wealth in this country, and it is untaxed.

So the average worker pays income tax, and the wealthy person doesn't pay wealth tax.

Most of the wealth in the UK is now in Property and in Private Pensions.

Neither of them are easy to hide, and there are ways of valuing them.

It would be much more difficult to value your collection of porcelain miniatures or your Victorian personal appliances, and much easier for you to hide them, so not a good candidate for taxing.

If there was going to be a tax on property, it would probably be a version of Land Tax, which has been discussed as a replacement for Council Tax and Business Rates. It is usually proposed that the amount of money raised should be the same as Council Tax and Business Rates gather, so it would not be an "increase" in the tax take. But it would probably not be capped in the same way as House Bands are for council tax, so it would be resisted by multi-billionaires such as Lord Harmsworth; and removing the cap would mean that it could raise more money, should this be necessary, or, alternatively, it could lead to a reduction in tax on those of us who are not multi-billionaires.

(if you google "Lord Harmsworth Tax" or "Viscount Rothermere Tax" you will see why I choose him as an example)

Great idea, and bring back the window tax too

No need.

Here is an estimate of total wealth in the UK, and how it is held.

Woah! What a leap.. ageism right there, up front and clear - what of the old widow in her expensive house how is that a loop hole, a cheat?

Depending onany threshold I suppose I'd be expected to re-mortgage my house, just before I get to retirement age, or give up my pension pot - I've only just started with that! Not sure that would help anyone, I'd end up on some sort of benefit that I am currently not having to!

Very sensible, on the face of it - not!!!

Incidentally, if there were to be a wealth tax, the easiest and cheapest way to implement it would be to devalue the £ by 10% (or whatever). No one holding sterling avoids it then.

They won't close the tax loopholes or go after the big tech giants because the Tories need the UK to become a tax haven - it's the only way to assure business after Brexit.

Don't know if anyone has mentioned this already but they have a wealth tax in the Netherlands except it's not one off, it's payable every year for everyone.

I lived there for a few years and was horrified by the notion but Dutch people see it as normal and are surprised it does not exist in other countries.

They tax equity in your property, cash and investments but not personal possessions like artworks or jewellery. It's based on taxing a fictitious profit that you could make on these assets but takes no account of whether you actually made any profit or not. Bizarre.

Oh and if the government want back what additional money my family have received over the last four months, I'd be happy to give it to them.

It's bugger all. ZERO.

Not sure why I should have to stump up 10% of the value of my home when we might be losing it anyway thanks to the unequal treatment of the self-employed.

[quote Raella50]@QuestionableMouse well you could mortgage the 10% of your house or sell and downsize? How is that any worse than what will happen to families in homes with mortgages who will be taxed more and lose their homes if they can’t afford mortgage repayments on less pay? Honestly this HAS to be done fairly so we all
Contribute. You can’t sit in your inherited payed off home and feel it’s fair to watch others lose theirs through huge taxation on salaries and not contribute yorurself???[/quote]
You clearly think everyone is in a situation to downsize or remortage! Well here in the real world it's not the case. I was able to pay my mortgage when my Mum died but I live in a one bedroom maisonette in an area where property prices are ridiculously high. I wouldn't be able to get a mortgage and what exactly do you suggest I downsize to?

YANBU So effort and hard work gets penalised again whilst Government and local authorities continue to spaff taxpayers money as if its some kind of bookies leather satchell full of £20s.

Only the other day in the gutter press i saw a story that Rishi Sunak, the golden boy of the treasury, is considering a plan of suspending stamp duty to boost the housing market ! F&ck the housing market! its already corrupt, endlessly propped up with bent schemes and taxpayers money and well over cooked. Should we be throwing taxpayers money at that crap? Dip MY pocket to fuel the purchase of fat 4 bed exec detached on bent schemes like HLB ?

I pay enough tax and im not in the business of paying a penny more. I dont care the country goes bankrupt. I've done my bit,,key worker,not stopped during this fiasco.

If gambling winnings were taxed then wouldn’t everyone just take up gambling and claim their losses against tax

Oh, yes, people would try that, I don't know whether it would work, though. The USA and other countries manage to tax lottery and other big prize wins. Logically, if you could claim gambling losses against tax, could you not also claim the money you 'lose' for hours of the day that you never work (night-time or whatever) as 'losses' against your tax? It's a minefield.

I also completely agree with the PP asking how you define 'wealth' and rightly saying that transient things like holidays, restaurant meals, fine wines etc are also part of the 'wealth' you've earned/acquired in life.

If gambling winnings were taxed then wouldn’t everyone just take up gambling and claim their losses against tax And what about losses? Are they tax deductable?

Becuase that quid pro quo is why wins are not taxed!

The best way to get out if this mess and save the economy / repay the debt is for people to get out and about spending rather than sitting at home